The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

I remember a comic Crumb drew, about his early record collecting days, and an encounter with an old black woman who refused to sell to him...

- Bill

Not all records are rare because they were unpopular when new. Some which sell for high prices today were best sellers which were either played to death or discarded when they became unfashionable. Two examples which come to mind are "Charleston", especially by the Savoy Orpheans with spoken announcement, and "White cliffs of Dover" by Vera Lynn.

My late friend Arthur Pare told me that a lot of the really rare records are boring to listen to. Take Charley Patton,for example. Some rave about him.Frankly,his wasn't the most pleasant voice to listen to. But, the common records such as Henry Burr,Paul Whiteman,ect.are much more enjoyable. edisonplayer.

I've come across records which the seller had a friend who told him that the records are probably valuable because it's a recognizable title and it's an old disk. And I've looked at the record and the condition is terrible verging on unplayable, and the seller holds onto the misguided info they were originally told because the realistic info I give them (without intention to buy) is the actual value - not much.

There does seem to be “The rarer the record the better the music” impression to some collectors. Maybe the hard work you did obtaining a record just sounds better?

epigramophone wrote: Sat Feb 27, 2021 4:58 am Not all records are rare because they were unpopular when new. Some which sell for high prices today were best sellers which were either played to death or discarded when they became unfashionable. Two examples which come to mind are "Charleston", especially by the Savoy Orpheans with spoken announcement, and "White cliffs of Dover" by Vera Lynn.

Do you think that’s really true? I have never seen an original copy of the Charleston in years of collecting. Apart from seeing the 1950s Winifred Atwell version many times. I thought it might be because either it simply wasn’t as popular as history makes out or it wasn’t that popular or much known outside of America in its day.

I know that good original Art Deco cocktail glasses are hard to come by because most ended up smashed on the bar room floor like their owners. Perhaps the Charleston was the same.

I’ve seen a few copies of the White Cliffs of Dover!

jamiegramo wrote: Tue Mar 09, 2021 6:19 pm
I’ve seen a few copies of the White Cliffs of Dover!

Me too!

https://www.ebay.com/itm/VERA-LYNN-Ther ... SwL8hgA62R

Another one by Lynn Fontanne:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/12-Shellac-78r ... 1198.m1985

jamiegramo wrote: Tue Mar 09, 2021 6:19 pm Do you think that’s really true? I have never seen an original copy of the Charleston in years of collecting. Apart from seeing the 1950s Winifred Atwell version many times. I thought it might be because either it simply wasn’t as popular as history makes out or it wasn’t that popular or much known outside of America in its day.

You are correct, Jamie, there was a Charleston dance craze, which the song composed by James P Johnson started, but what happened is that the recordings of that particular song called Charleston were competing with several dozens of other Charleston dance records. In 1925 there were at least 12 recordings of the song Charleston plus dozens of others with Charleston on the titles, like Charleston Baby and whatever combination of catchy words. Apart from Paul Whiteman, who was already a celebrity, the other dance bands were more or less anonymous, so to buyers it mattered little if the record was by Ben Selvin or California Ramblers. Specific dance band records were never best sellers until the swing era, when people would buy the recording of a given tune by a given band, like In the Mood by Glenn Miller. And the mention you made to the 50s recording is also evidence of the ressurrection of the Charleston as a symbol of the roaring 20s that came up in the 40s and 50s, mainly via Hollywood, and introduced it to modern years, otherwise the Charleston would be as dead as the Kangaroo Hop and the Trucking.

Curt A wrote: Fri Feb 26, 2021 5:42 pm worth more to a collector than say, a ratty VV-VI or a copy of Bing's "White Christmas"...

HEY! I'm keeping all 15 of my copies of Bing's White Christmas until I can sell them for a fortune and the retire. You record collectors are deflating my common collection of records by informing buyers Sheesh. What will you guys do next, tell people that my Partridge family and Barbara Streisand 33s aren't worth anything?