The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

Raphael wrote: Sat Mar 06, 2021 6:28 am It would have been nice to keep this discussion going, but the last two posters obviously need to amuse themselves at the expense of others who might wish to contribute.

I will thus re-phrase my question:

Why would a less-versatile reproducer capable of ruining certain types of cylinders (the A) be more desirable than a more-versatile one (L), if they are both in tip-top shape? Is it simply the perceived improvement in fidelity on Amberols?


Raphael

I would strongly disagree that the A is a "perceived improvement" over the L. The improvement is real. The A definitely sounds superior, wider dynamic range and better ability to handle loud passages in the recording. If you think of adjusting the bass and treble on a modern receiver, 0 to 10, listening with the L, M or N is somewhat like bass 3, treble 10 while listening to the diamond A, B, C is more like bass 5, treble 5.

Valecnik wrote: Sat Mar 06, 2021 8:16 am
I would strongly disagree that the A is a "perceived improvement" over the L. The improvement is real. The A definitely sounds superior, wider dynamic range and better ability to handle loud passages in the recording. If you think of adjusting the bass and treble on a modern receiver, 0 to 10, listening with the L, M or N is somewhat like bass 3, treble 10 while listening to the diamond A, B, C is more like bass 5, treble 5.

Bruce,

In light of your comparative analysis, I guess it boils down to the degradation of my hearing, and that of other old-timers that feel the same as I do. It’s nice to have a conversation with someone like you who isn’t insulting or talk nonsense.

Thanks,
Raphael

We all know that cost does not necessarily track quality, in this hobby.

Another pervasive example of this is the ridiculous notion that brass-bodied early orthophonic reproducers somehow sound better than the later pot-metal ones, which is hogwash that allows folks to rationalize paying huge dollars for them.

Raffy’s dealer perspective on the L vs the A, based primarily on dollars, might be also explained by something more simple.

It could be that the Diamond A is perceived by the average (and less-knowledgeable) customer as more desirable because:

- it looks more attractive or impressive somehow, or

- due to the relative rarity of the L, the customer doesn’t know enough about it to want it - thinking that it doesn’t have compatibility, etc, or

- most photos* of Operas show an A installed, and the more casual customer thus assumes the L is incorrect,

...or something else entirely, that we hobbyists don’t think of, because we’re too immersed/knowledgeable - as hobbyists.

It would be nice to find out whether Edison ever supplied the Opera and Amberola 1B machines with an L and an A, or offered a choice, or simply stopped including the L in favor of the A. Seeing that they had offered ring adapters to allow backward compatibility for smaller reproducers on large-eye carriages, I’m going to theorize the A just took over, with L becoming an extra cost option.




*this comment is specific to overseas buyers with limited English skills, who often search online for photos of machines as a means of validating “correctness” of items they are considering for purchase.