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Re: Is anyone familiar with a Cliftophone reproducer?
Posted: Tue Mar 23, 2021 11:21 am
by VanEpsFan1914
jamiegramo wrote: Tue Mar 09, 2021 11:59 am
If the problem is the diaphragm this could be because celluloid becomes hard and brittle over time. It’s an inevitable problem with most early plastics that they will deteriorate. If the future looks bleak for humanity it is also bleak for the Cliftophone. Perhaps they sounded really good when new, after all Brunswick bought them out.
I am wondering if you could apply a thin coat of linseed or mineral oil to the celluloid, this could then be lightly over coated with a small amount of alcohol (methylated spirit/denatured alcohol). The idea is to penetrate the celluloid and soften it so that it goes back to being more compliant for sound reproduction. Alcohol is an ingredient of celluloid but there is a danger it could melt the celluloid. I guess you could test the edge or I’ve got some old bits of celluloid I could dig out and test with meths to see how it reacts. This is only an idea...
This assumes it’s not the gaskets...
Celluloid goes bad when its camphor content evaporates, so solvents or oils wouldn't help as much.
Re: Cliftophone reproducer - UPDATE
Posted: Tue Mar 23, 2021 1:13 pm
by jamiegramo
Curt, thank you for the follow-up. Always interesting to hear how a problem is solved and where the source of a problem lies.
Perhaps the only thing going for the Cliftophone diaphragm was it’s attractive appearance and even that becomes fairly worthless considering the angle of the soundbox and that it’s hardly in view.
Re: Is anyone familiar with a Cliftophone reproducer?
Posted: Tue Mar 23, 2021 1:32 pm
by jamiegramo
VanEpsFan1914 wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 11:21 am
jamiegramo wrote: Tue Mar 09, 2021 11:59 am
If the problem is the diaphragm this could be because celluloid becomes hard and brittle over time. It’s an inevitable problem with most early plastics that they will deteriorate. If the future looks bleak for humanity it is also bleak for the Cliftophone. Perhaps they sounded really good when new, after all Brunswick bought them out.
I am wondering if you could apply a thin coat of linseed or mineral oil to the celluloid, this could then be lightly over coated with a small amount of alcohol (methylated spirit/denatured alcohol). The idea is to penetrate the celluloid and soften it so that it goes back to being more compliant for sound reproduction. Alcohol is an ingredient of celluloid but there is a danger it could melt the celluloid. I guess you could test the edge or I’ve got some old bits of celluloid I could dig out and test with meths to see how it reacts. This is only an idea...
This assumes it’s not the gaskets...
Celluloid goes bad when its camphor content evaporates, so solvents or oils wouldn't help as much.
I have been wondering if the celluloid could be improved somehow, perhaps sprayed or coated with something but I think Curt found the best solution.
Years ago I had a Brunswick Cliftophone with the Cliftophone Amplifier (I think it called itself) and it sounded pretty awful so i’m now wondering how that would have sounded with a better mica diaphragm.
Re: Cliftophone reproducer - UPDATE
Posted: Tue Mar 23, 2021 3:24 pm
by Curt A
From my experience, it wouldn't be worth trying to make the celluloid better, when mica or aluminum diaphragms are readily available and sound so much better. Then there is the needle bar problem...
Re: Is anyone familiar with a Cliftophone reproducer?
Posted: Tue Mar 23, 2021 6:10 pm
by Orchorsol
jamiegramo wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 1:32 pm
I have been wondering if the celluloid could be improved somehow, perhaps sprayed or coated with something but I think Curt found the best solution.
Years ago I had a Brunswick Cliftophone with the Cliftophone Amplifier (I think it called itself) and it sounded pretty awful so i’m now wondering how that would have sounded with a better mica diaphragm.
I have two Cliftophones, a portable with the "Cliftophone Amplifer" and an earlier cabinet machine, both with their original diaphragms, and both sound fine, though they're not great performers... Better than the average off-brand, at least.
Re: Is anyone familiar with a Cliftophone reproducer?
Posted: Wed Mar 24, 2021 6:14 am
by CarlosV
Orchorsol wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 6:10 pm
[
I have two Cliftophones, a portable with the "Cliftophone Amplifer" and an earlier cabinet machine, both with their original diaphragms, and both sound fine, though they're not great performers... Better than the average off-brand, at least.
My experience is similar to Orchorsol's, I also have a good-looking Cliftophone portable with a record compartment accessible from the exterior, and the original soundbox and diaphragm. The sound is just like the average standard portables of the period, not a star performer but not a dud neither. This means that the presumed degradation of diaphragms is not universal, some survived well to our days.
Re: Cliftophone reproducer - UPDATE
Posted: Wed Mar 24, 2021 8:58 am
by Curt A
Would someone mind posting a picture of a Cliftophone? I have only seen the tone arm and reproducer...
Re: Cliftophone reproducer - UPDATE
Posted: Wed Mar 24, 2021 10:04 am
by Orchorsol
Curt A wrote: Wed Mar 24, 2021 8:58 am
Would someone mind posting a picture of a Cliftophone? I have only seen the tone arm and reproducer...
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_ ... liftophone (a couple of my own videos are amongst the results).
Here's another that doesn't come up in the search:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m1eigllB7KI
Re: Cliftophone reproducer - UPDATE
Posted: Wed Mar 24, 2021 8:57 pm
by Curt A
Orchorsol - Thanks for posting the videos of your machine. The Cliftophone portable is really an attractive one and yours has the same tonearm and cabinet mount that I bought on eBay 15 or more years ago, although the reproducer is different with the cover over the diaphragm. The sound from your machine is very good, clear and bright, so now I know what a good one sounds like. I bought the tonearm, mount and reproducer as a spontaneous purchase with the idea that I might use it for something in the future - it turned out to be the perfect components to construct my Le Palmodian replica.
Re: Cliftophone reproducer - UPDATE
Posted: Thu Mar 25, 2021 6:10 am
by Orchorsol
Thanks for extracting the photos Curt!