The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

I should like to thank Governor Flyball for bringing Peter Martland's important article to our notice.

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One measure of the significance of Caruso's early recordings is the fact that my pink-label (1908) copy of his November 1902 version of Vesti la giubba is marked with the Roman numeral XVIII, indicating that it was pressed from stamper no. 18. This is the highest stamper number I have ever seen on any G. & T. record, although I suspect it will have been exceeded in the field of popular music. I believe (though I would welcome further information about this) that each stamper represents about a thousand copies. This ten-inch record was still available to special order in the 1930s, despite competing with two later Victor-recorded versions (one from 1904 with piano accompaniment and the famous orchestrally-accompanied version of 1907).

Oliver Mundy.

Thanks for this, I've downloaded it and read later. I'm very fond of these stories!

I have a ca. 1930's HMV of the 1902 "Studenti udite!", his first recorded title at that April session. Though I suspect its a dub.

As per Kelly database, original matrix was 1782a,with something added to the mx no., as "nB". if you check your copy for markings under the label or in the runout area maybe you'll find something to tell you if it is a dubbing or pressed from original matrix. Although in the thirties they used to erase old markings, and put the eccentric grooves, etc. Nevertheless, examining the runout area under a strong light can reveal old erased markings, etc.

Good to know. I'll have to get the record out and have a look.

All ten of Caruso’s April 1902 G&T’s beginning with stamper II were pressed from copied stampers, with varying sonic results. The original stampers wore out within a few months due to the unexpected success of the records and the only way to keep those original ten recordings available was to press the existing stampers into a fresh matrix. G&T did develop the duplicate stamper process in time for Caruso’s second session, however. But the original ten recordings from the first session sound best on original flush-label unworn first stamper pressings. Not easy to find!
‘
Steven

Governor Flyball wrote: Wed Aug 04, 2021 8:15 pm
I discovered some years ago musing on the apocryphal Gaisberg story of the "fee exhorbitant- forbid you to record". Not to diminish the importance of Fred Gaisberg and his contribution to the industry, there is evidence that his story is not fully accurate.

I would suggest you read this interesting article in a 1994 Association of Recorded Sound Collections (ARSC).
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... jeaErKP7J4

Tried to read the article; but it's all cut up into pieces. How do you make it readable?

- Bill

Wolfe wrote: Thu Aug 05, 2021 1:55 pm I have a ca. 1930's HMV of the 1902 "Studenti udite!", his first recorded title at that April session. Though I suspect its a dub.

Why do you think it a dub? Can you show a photo?
Victor and the Gramophone Co. generally do not dub and the '30's pressings were from the original matrix. The first session was pre matrix which means it may be a copy of the stamper.

Tried to read the article; but it's all cut up into pieces. How do you make it readable?

- Bill

What pdf reader are you using? Try another pdf reader. Foxit is good.

Governor Flyball wrote: Thu Aug 05, 2021 11:47 pm

Wolfe wrote: Thu Aug 05, 2021 1:55 pm I have a ca. 1930's HMV of the 1902 "Studenti udite!", his first recorded title at that April session. Though I suspect its a dub.

Why do you think it a dub? Can you show a photo?
Victor and the Gramophone Co. generally do not dub and the '30's pressings were from the original matrix. The first session was pre matrix which means it may be a copy of the stamper.

It's red label HMV 544. Some tiny number stamp at 12 o'clock. Some sig scrawl at 3 o'clock that resembles something like like "Rufus xxsjb" . Other side is "No, non chiuder gli occhi vaghi". Which has no "Rufus" scrawl at 3 o'clock.

I earlier assumed it dubbed. Maybe it's copy of the stamper that was made and not a dub. Probably I don't want to belabor it on this particular thread.