The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

Definitely for fun/enjoyment of the machine and hearing it play. I was dismayed when relatives asked if all my phonographs were an "investment." I'd never get more than I paid for the machines I would part with...probably not for most of the ones I wouldn't, too. (What a convoluted sentence, but you get the idea)

I disagree that a phonograph isn't a good investment. But then again I have yet to pay "market" price for any phonograph as I buy primarily from craigslist, auctions, ect. Therefor, the profit I make on any given phonograph is more than $100 or $200. So although it may not be the best form of investment with an assured return, I don't think it's necessarily a hopeless one. Either way, if collecting phonographs is enjoyable to someone, then in my opinion it beats that sweat shop in India regardless of ROI.

I collect for fun and like others have mentioned, can only afford to do so by buying and selling for a profit in order to fund the hobby. I am not in a place in my life yet where I can buy the phonographs I want without worrying about the cost. I have a one year old and my wife and I are expecting another in two months. So I have to buy common phonos at low prices to resell in order to afford the phonographs I desire for a permanent place in my collection. But that's half the fun to me anyway. Someone recently mentioned the term "sport" collecting. I love the hunt and think it's half the fun. Sure it would be great to have unlimited funds so I could buy any phonograph I come across on eBay or at auction. But when I have to search for phonographs at affordable prices and have to get creative in where and how I look, it makes the find a bit more exciting. I will say however, that the real enjoyment I get from this hobby is the aspect of building a collection of phonographs important to the history of recorded sound. So ultimately I am in it for the fun far more than for the profit.

I do buy and sell in hopes of spending the difference on something that I want to keep. It's not difficult for me because I enjoy interacting with people. Also, I enjoy bringing a machine back to life and passing it to someone else. There's a great deal of satisfaction in doing a nice restoration. Jerry

SonnyPhono wrote: I buy primarily from craigslist, auctions, ect. Therefor, the profit I make on any given phonograph is more than $100 or $200.

To me, that's not investing but backyard dealing. My definition of investing would be buying something at market value & the market value increases, not simply buying something well below market value then making a profit. You could probably make a profit flipping paper clips too, but I wouldn't call it an investment
Not that there's anything wrong with backyard dealing, unless you are deliberately going out of your way to rip people off. There's nothing wrong with buying stuff that's underpriced, but if someone finds a machine worth $5000 that was advertised for $1000, then feeds the seller a bunch of BS to get it for $400, they deserve to be hit by a truck.

After collecting for over 30 yrs, the sad realization is that only the rare desirable machines have substantially increased in value, and surprizingly portables too.
When I started collecting, an average HMV horn model would cost $600, and today I could get the same machine for $1200-$1500, which is probably in line with 30 yrs of inflation.
The average upright cost $75-$100, and now the same machines would be worth $200-$400.
An Edison Standard sold for around $300 back then, and now I'd still only have to pay between $300-$600 to get one depending on the source. My A100 DD was $100 back then, & I'd only get $200-$300 for it now.
These old prices were considered cheap at the time too because you'd generally pay a lot more buying through antique shops.
Your average portable on the other hand, cost from $5-$20 even from shops, and now the same machines sell for between $100-$300 or more, so it's really only these common portables that have increased 10 fold or more in actual value over 30yrs, making them the best investment of them all in the mid to lowend range of machines. Other mini machines like cameraphones etc have followed a similar path too.
Other than those, the only other machines that have skyrocketed is the rare stuff.
When uprights were $100, my 202 cost $325, which was considered a huge sum for a cabinet model, but what I paid was exactly what it worth at the time. I could sell it tomorrow for at least $10,000 because that's what it's worth, so it turned out to be a good investment.
It's only the other rare &/or early stuff that has followed the same path.
If I'd invested in filled a shed with tinfoil machines, lumiere pleated HMVs, Idealias, Berliners & portables, I'd be an extremely wealthy man today, but with a shed full of common & plentiful stuff I'd barely break even.

gramophoneshane wrote:My definition of investing would be buying something at market value & the market value increases, not simply buying something well below market value then making a profit.

That was my idea of "investing" in phonographs was as well. I would not include selling phonographs at profit to buy other phonographs as "collecting for profit." The additional money realized still goes into the hobby, so any profit is really null in the hobby sense. However, if you purchased machine X because it was a steal, etc., and your INTENT on the day you bought it was to sell it again (to build your bank account or pay down your mortgage or whatever), THAT I would call "for profit."

I try to break even with my hobby money. I occasionally sell something that been in collection for years but it's usually because I found a nicer example. I buy lots of things simply for repair and resale. I enjoy that part of the hobby. I get a lot of advice from DeeDee. If I don't take money out of our family budget, I know the advice I get is not based on whether we can take a vacation to Hawaii or not. Jerry Blais

From your other posts, DeeDee is an excellent addition to the hobby!

Buying a machine to fix and sell, if you enjoy the repair/restoration of it, is not what I'd consider for profit. Actually, it's wonderful that there are people who enjoy repairing machines they don't want to keep, or many of us might never see or own restored examples!

Machines can be an investment, albeit a short term one in general. If one is
renovating then flipping for profit, its more like retail sales and the
machines are inventory. I think of them as a sort of small scale "real estate"
investment. Each "house" must be renovated for maximum profit.

Good points there. I guess when I said "investment", I wasn't referring to a long term investment. I was just using the word in a literal sense. Here's it's definition:

The commitment of money or capital to the purchase of financial instruments or other assets so as to gain profitable returns in the form of interest, income {dividend}, or appreciation of the value of the instrument.

You are right, maybe collecting phonographs isn't a great choice as a long term investment. But if bought for a good price with intentions of selling for a profit, a phonograph can be a great short term investment.

Sorry...I know I was splitting hairs there.

I collect for fun. I took an early retirement from the Navy because of an injury I suffered. Phonograph collecting and restoration is great therapy for me. It keeps me active, focused, and busy. In fact, I am more busy being retired than when I was working or on active duty. I'm not in this hobby for the money. I try to sell items as fair as I can, so I can sell off my duplicates. I'm not out to gouge any one. I met many great people in this hobby and made lots of friends.
Harvey Kravitz