My New RCA Victor Portable

[Inigo]

I believe in these machines you take out the motorboard complete with tonearm, horn and all the stuff. Then by the down side you can operate in the motor without need to disassemble anything more. Remove the soundbox first!

[Lah Ca]

I believe in these machines you take out the motorboard complete with tonearm, horn and all the stuff. Then by the down side you can operate in the motor without need to disassemble anything more. Remove the soundbox first!

Thanks.

I am wondering if there will a gasket or seal of some kind between the base of the tone arm and the horn that I will need to be careful of.

[Lah Ca]

An other question I have relates to the needle storage cup. See picture above.

It must have had a rubber insert of some sort in the lid at one time, because it is useless at keeping needles in the cup now. Yes/no?

[Inigo]

There's such a joint. See this other recent thread where a colleague has repaired a similar machine, but it had a fabric horn. The tonearm was similarly bolted, and our colleague disassembled it and replaced by nuts and bolts.
viewtopic.php?p=305940#p305940
About the needle pot lid, if you've noticed that it seems to lack a joint, it probably needs something. You could cut a suitable piece of thin leather and stick it under the lid, so it seals better against the pot edge.
The other thread maybe has something about it, but I don't remember exactly. Look in the forum for off brand portables, Birch portables, etc, which are similar, although the octagonal needle pot I believe is a bit special.
Maybe another colleague with a similar machine can post photos of the needle pot lid, so we can see how it works.
Your machine seems, though, more solid and better done than these others. Your horn seems made of metal plate, is it indeed? Although fabric horns are more delicate, I've heard that they give a very good warm sound, when properly sealed.
In these horns, the 'fourth' side is the motorboard, so for proper transmission of sound, and especially the bass, a good sealing of the horn edges against the motorboard is fundamental, not to loose any air pressure along the path; it should be airtight from the tonearm base up to the mouth. It can be sealed with wax, or a good quality white vinyl glue (Elmer's glue), which is easily removable in case of need. I use this for sealing soundboxes, holes in diaphragms, etc, with good results. The only thing is that it must be kept away from water, which dissolves it.

[gramophoneshane]

An other question I have relates to the needle storage cup. See picture above.

It must have had a rubber insert of some sort in the lid at one time, because it is useless at keeping needles in the cup now. Yes/no?

I've never seen a needle cup that needed something in the lid to seal it, so I'd assume the hinge is bent or misshaped and won't allow the lid to sit flat against the edge of the cup.
Putting rubber or leather under the lid will likely make the problem worse.

[Lah Ca]

There's such a joint. See this other recent thread where a colleague has repaired a similar machine, but it had a fabric horn. The tonearm was similarly bolted, and our colleague disassembled it and replaced by nuts and bolts.
viewtopic.php?p=305940#p305940

Thanks, yet again.

... but it had a fabric horn ....

Your machine seems, though, more solid and better done than these others. Your horn seems made of metal plate, is it indeed? Although fabric horns are more delicate, I've heard that they give a very good warm sound, when properly sealed.

The horn in my machine appears to be made of steel. I have gently put my hand down into the horn and had a bit of an exploratory feel about. The tube of the horn seems to go straight towards the front of the machine down the left side, so I assume it then curves around the front and back down the right side to the tone arm base - not sure how this works with with crank - perhaps there is a tube through the horn?. As far as I can tell, the motorboard is not part of the horn. The top side of the horn is steel as far back as I can safely insert my hand. The blue flocking finish only extends as far into the horn as is easily visible, a cosmetic flourish. We shall know more once I open the machine.

Although fabric horns are more delicate, I've heard that they give a very good warm sound, when properly sealed.

There is nothing delicate about the horn in my machine. Solid and loud.

About the needle pot lid, if you've noticed that it seems to lack a joint, it probably needs something. You could cut a suitable piece of thin leather and stick it under the lid, so it seals better against the pot edge.
The other thread maybe has something about it, but I don't remember exactly. Look in the forum for off brand portables, Birch portables, etc, which are similar, although the octagonal needle pot I believe is a bit special.
Maybe another colleague with a similar machine can post photos of the needle pot lid, so we can see how it works.

An other question I have relates to the needle storage cup. See picture above.

It must have had a rubber insert of some sort in the lid at one time, because it is useless at keeping needles in the cup now. Yes/no?

I've never seen a needle cup that needed something in the lid to seal it, so I'd assume the hinge is bent or misshaped and won't allow the lid to sit flat against the edge of the cup.
Putting rubber or leather under the lid will likely make the problem worse.

The spring loaded cap seems to be in perfect condition - no evidence of any distortion of form - the spring is fiercely and solidly strong. The cap does do something; it keeps needles in the vicinity of the pot if not actually in it. So needles do not/cannot escape into the case. Perhaps there is a design/manufacturing flaw here, and the tolerance between the rim of the pot and the lid is a little too great - the flanges on the right and left sides of the lid have bitten a little into the finish of the motorboard where they meet it - so the cap is obviously not resting against the rim of the pot when it is closed. There is no evidence of anything ever having been glued into the underside of the lid.

[OrthoFan]

The needle holder seems to be virtually identical to the one used on the Birch Model 700 phonograph --

Capture.JPG (36.88 KiB) Viewed 1251 times

FROM: https://image.invaluable.com/housePhoto ... 468515.jpg

I used to own this model, and based on my experience, the pressure of the spring supported lid is sufficient to keep the needles from leaking out. If you're concerned about this, you can position a small circle of felt over the needle cup, but this shouldn't be necessary.

The Birch 700 is also equipped with the same sound box, which is an excellent performer--when restored with fresh diaphragm gaskets and a new soft throat gasket.

OrthoFan

[Lah Ca]

The needle holder seems to be virtually identical to the one used on the Birch Model 700 phonograph --
Capture.JPG
FROM: https://image.invaluable.com/housePhoto ... 468515.jpg

I used to own this model, and based on my experience, the pressure of the spring supported lid is sufficient to keep the needles from leaking out. If you're concerned about this, you can position a small circle of felt over the needle cup, but this shouldn't be necessary.

The Birch 700 is also equipped with the same sound box, which is an excellent performer--when restored with fresh diaphragm gaskets and a new soft throat gasket.

OrthoFan

Interesting. Thanks.

Discussion of this machine keep circling back to its marked if non-model-specific similarities to Birch machines.

The machine is most likely a late model, well past the halcyon days for acoustic machines, just out of the Great Depression and into WWII. Production would have been a marginal sideline thing, I think. It is possible that RCA Victor bought parts from Birch or that they both subcontracted out the manufacture of appointment parts to the same third party manufacturer. Things get strange when money is tighter. Also if the machine is a WWII-era build, there would have been major parts/materials shortages - using metals to build talking machines would not have been a Canadian Government priority. The machine may have been cobbled together from a hodge-podge of whatever existing parts were on hand, mixed with whatever else could be obtained. Any/all of this could explain the strangeness of the machine, including the mismatch of the motorboard and horn mouth. It is my understanding that Canadian RCA Victor production records have never been found and so probably did not survive. So we will probably never know for sure.

And I must face the possibility that this machine is a very well done Franken-phone, body parts from different corpses stitched together in the distant past - definitely not something recent. I went into the purchase with my eyes open, well aware of this possibility. I think this to be a bit more unlikely than other possibilities, though.

Whatever it is or may be, it is a nice enough machine . It sounds very nice. It shows very little signs of extensive use and no signs of abuse.

[Inigo]

I see. The fact is that the lid in your pot presses strongly against the motorboard, but the needle pot edge rests at a slightly lower position, not in contact with the lid, so the needles escape from the pot.
If this is too disturbing, I see no harm in cutting a piece of suitable card stock or thick paper, and fit it into the lid, so it reaches full contact with the needle pot edge when closed.

[OrthoFan]

And I must face the possibility that this machine is a very well done Franken-phone, body parts from different corpses stitched together in the distant past - definitely not something recent. I went into the purchase with my eyes open, well aware of this possibility. I think this to be a bit more unlikely than other possibilities, though.

Whatever it is or may be, it is a nice enough machine . It sounds very nice. It shows very little signs of extensive use and no signs of abuse.

Keeping in mind the fact that virtually all of the components for RCA-Victrola brand portables from the early-to-mid-1930s onward were supplied by outside vendors such as General Industries, etc., I'm pretty sure that this is not a Franken-Phone. I'm wondering if "012041" stamped on the motor-board is the manufacture date -- Jan. 20, 1941. If that's the case, with RCA gearing up for war work and Canada fully involved, it's more likely that this was probably supplied by Birch to RCA to fill any demand there might have been for acoustic portables.

BTW, judging from the photos of the tonearm, it looks like the whole thing might have been gold colored at one time. I had a portable with an identical tonearm that had sort of a bronze-brownish colored coating which was literally falling off in patches, leaving behind the pot metal gray surface.

OrthoFan