The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

OrthoSean wrote:Well, my C-19 is 172702, green felt, 10 / 12 inch selector buttons, three weight governor and "above deck" speed control and also no long play gears.

Interesting...

Sean

I dont think I'm game to ask about the crank then
I presume this was a purchase from the original owner/family & not from a collector?

This thread becomes more interesting!

Shane, my machine always had green felt - I have replaced it however as the original was badly moth eaten.

Frank, to be a Long Playing machine, you needed an extra set of gears to slow down the reproducer across the disk - just like the 2/4 combination cylinder machines had. You also needed a special long-playing reproducer.

The 10/12 selector is only used to position the reproducer at the correct starting point for the record. (To use, press down "10" and then slide the reproducer or the handle across to the record and it'll stop in the right place, if the adjustments are still correct. Mine were out all over the place). Could it have been that Edison was at some stage planning 12 inch normal Diamond Disks? A professional restorer friend of mine thinks that they were getting all the machines ready for LP attachments, they just didn't install it on this one. Maybe it was an optional extra...

My lateral adaptor is really lousy - even re-gasketted...I never use it - other machines play normal 78s much better, but it's nice to have. The only mark on it is I (or 1) AX, see photo. No brand, unfortunately.

I got the machine a few years ago from a non - collector who just wanted to turn a massive profit. He couldn't work out how to get it to work (I was nice and showed him that playing Diamond Disks with the lateral adaptor wouldn't do much for sound quality - or the disks!) Got it home (in the back of my partner's Mini(!) and hauled it up the stairs myself (she was so angry with me for making her drive the two hour trip home in the middle of winter with the hatch of the car open and the feet of the phonograph hanging out...), played a record and snap went the springs! With the replacement of both springs, rebuilds to both reproducers and the start of a whole new collection of records (never had DDs before), talk about an over-capitalized machine!

It's an Oro-tone. I've never really liked these, partly because the ball joint swivel has a lot of air leaks, but mainly because it's all pot metal.
If you get the chance to pick up a "Kentone No.2" adaptor, they're far better. It's kind of like a swan neck tonearm, and although the swivel section is also pot metal, it seems to better quality, and the main part of the arm is brass. My Kentone didn't come with a soundbox so I cant comment of the sound quality of those, but they take normal sized reproducers with a bayonet fitting, so you can use a HMV no.4, Goldring et etc etc.
I use one of those Paillard boxes that look like an oversie no.4 on mine, and it works really well and sounds pretty good.

I don't know anything about the C19, but even my cheap BC34 has the 10"-12" switch, even though it doesn't do anything. The metal arm that's attached to the horn and is supposed to be stopped by that switch never comes closer than about half an inch to the switch. I always wondered if there was some sort of rubber or cork stopper attached to that arm to bridge that distance?
I definitely know that my BC34 does not have a long play attachment, but it has the 10"-12" switch.
I have a few lateral adapters, one looks like the one pictured and does not play very well. The second one is branded "Sterling" and can be turned around to play Pathé records (I think). I have another one with several joints that is branded "The Perfection Reproducer - Flexi-Tone", which has a great sound and seems to be easier on the records. They may have been a nice option for someone who only has one phonograph to play both types of records, but since I have several lateral machines as well I hardly ever use them.
Andreas

recordo wrote: Edison was at some stage planning 12 inch normal Diamond Disks? A professional restorer friend of mine thinks that they were getting all the machines ready for LP attachments, they just didn't install it on this one. Maybe it was an optional extra...

I'd have to agree with your restorer friend. I've seen at least a couple dozen machines over the years which had the buttons but no LP gearing, and quite a few of these were single spring Baby Consoles & London Consoles. I haven't yet seen a London table model with the buttons unless they have also been upgraded to an LP mechanism with a second spring added, so maybe they thought if a customer who could only afford the cheapest machine available they would be unlikely to afford the LP attachment.
I guess the buttons became pretty standard on most post-LP era cabinet machines because they were (kind of) a useful feature, & to perhaps encourage new owners to hand over their cash for the long play upgrade.

Edison was planning to issue 12" discs, and in 1919 even went as far as to include a price list & range of catalogue numbers for 12" selections on some record sleeves, but these never materialised.
I think I've heard somewhere that there was some sort of problem with the manufacturing process the 12" discs, but I wonder if the real issue might have been single spring machines.
10" DD's could run for up to 5 minutes a side, so perhaps the extra 2 or 3 mins playtime of a 12" disc was a little too much for one spring to handle without slowing down before the record finished?

Hi Shane,

many thanks for posting the Orotone leaflet - I never knew that's what it was and appreciate it!

Regards, Glenn.

recordo wrote:Hi Shane,

many thanks for posting the Orotone leaflet - I never knew that's what it was and appreciate it!

Regards, Glenn.

You're welcome.
You might notice the close-up of the soundbox shows an extra hole for a Pathé needle as well, but they seem to have used that picture in all their Edison attachment instructions leaflets.
I've never identified the model number designation of the attachment that plays both lateral & vertical cut records, but I've had a couple over the years. Because these need the tonearm to swivel & pot metal issues, they are often cracked or broken.
"Jewel" brand attachments are the same, but they have a better sounding soundbox than the Oro-tones.

gramophoneshane wrote:

OrthoSean wrote:Well, my C-19 is 172702, green felt, 10 / 12 inch selector buttons, three weight governor and "above deck" speed control and also no long play gears.

Interesting...

Sean

I dont think I'm game to ask about the crank then
I presume this was a purchase from the original owner/family & not from a collector?

It came from an estate auction and I'm pretty sure it wasn't messed with. It also came with an oro-tone lateral adapter with an orthophonic type soundbox. There were just a few diamond discs with it, like two, but a couple of hundred regular 78s which were nearly all electrics from the later 20s. I almost wonder if this was a machine sold off cheap after Edison went out of the phonograph and record business that somebody bought and threw on the lateral attachment. I'd swear the DD reproducer had barely any use.

Sean