The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

icemandan01 wrote:hi and thanks for the advice all three weights are present and working. as for the record theory the record it is a 78 and works fine on my victrola barona(vv4-40) which has basically the same motor assembly and orthophonic reproducer. i do notice that reproducer seems positioned better on my barona. i will post a pic of that tomorrow, i was told once that this late style of 78 is ok to play on these phonographs as long as you only use a soft tone needle. but thats another subject. thanks dan

I'm afraid you were told wrong. Doesn't matter that it's a 78, the operative phrase here is "late style." How late? The Everly Bros. were recording in the 1950s, as in "very late." It sure *looks* to me like vinyl, and if this is the case that's a big fat no-no. Doesn't matter that it "works fine" on your 4-40. Orthophonic sound boxes, I've read, track even heavier than earlier boxes like Exhibition. In both cases, that spells d-e-a-t-h to vinyl. Not to mention the effects from the steel needle on record grooves intended for, say, a 5-mil diamond stylus in a cartridge tracking at, say, 1.5 grams. (That's why they were called "microgroove" records.)

Check out the governor, its springs, weights, and end bearing adjustments, and all the other exposed gearing under the motor board for proper lubrication and free action as designed. Wind up the motor and watch the action for binding. Don't neglect to put a few drops of thin oil down the turntable spindle, after removing the turntable. You should be able to stop the turntable by touching the perimeter of the governer, and when you release your finger the governor should spin and the table should resume turning on its own. You may be due for a complete overhaul of the motor springs (a CLA--cleaning, lubricating-adjusting as we say in the camera world), with possible replacement of one or more springs as needed. This kind of work is best done by a professional service IMO, although many on this board have done their own.

After all this, and maybe some other steps I haven't thought of, you should be good to go. And don't play Everly Bros. (or any other!) vinyls on your acoustic machines!!

P.S. The sound box alignment relative to the turntable looks fine to me.

The original author of this post has made two important points. First, he has installed a second spring motor and the results were the same. Second, he is able to play the same record on a similar machine with satisfactory results. I'm at a bit of a loss for an answer. Does the tone arm move freely back and forth as well as vertically? Is the angle of the needle correct as previously mentioned. Is the motor wound enough as mentioned? Jerry

I agree Jerry. Did he change reproducers between his two machines? I should think they were inter changeable. If he did, there is something wrong with either the motor or the main bearing. I simply can't think of anything else

Peter Hendriksma

An addition to my post on this thread: I did not mean to suggest that the Everly Bros. 78 rpm record shown in the OP's photo was a "microgroove" record like a 33-⅓ rpm LP, rather that playing vinyl with a steel needle and a very heavy acoustic sound box degrades and will ultimately destroy the sonic information contained in the record grooves.

Another possibility for OP's original problem: the record may be slipping on the felt surface of the turntable and its revolution stopped by the weight of the sound box. Of course in that case the turntable would presumably keep turning under the record. Is this what's happening?

Henry wrote:An addition to my post on this thread: I did not mean to suggest that the Everly Bros. 78 rpm record shown in the OP's photo was a "microgroove" record like a 33-⅓ rpm LP,

It's not microgroove. Though some of those late 78's do have quite narrow grooves, compared to their earlier shellac cousins. If a record of that vintage tracks well on a modern player using a 2 mil tip, say, a steel needle with an (average) 5 mil tip isn't going to be doing that record any favors besides.

And don't Ortho soundboxes track at around 160 grams? I've never measured the one on my Victor 4-40, but that's what I've heard.

so did you guys hear the one about a guy on here who spent two days messing with his machine only to find out all he had to do was change the record . got home from work tried a different record and it worked. i was completely shocked so a big red faced thank you to everyone who shared their advice. now all i have to do is put the original motor back in. then move this baby into the house. finally, thanks dan

Wolfe wrote:

Henry wrote:An addition to my post on this thread: I did not mean to suggest that the Everly Bros. 78 rpm record shown in the OP's photo was a "microgroove" record like a 33-⅓ rpm LP....

It's not microgroove.

Yes, that's what I said. What part of "I did not mean to suggest that the Everly Bros. 78 rpm record shown in the OP's photo was a "microgroove" record like a 33-⅓ rpm LP" did you not understand?

Henry wrote:
Yes, that's what I said. What part of "I did not mean to suggest that the Everly Bros. 78 rpm record shown in the OP's photo was a "microgroove" record like a 33-⅓ rpm LP" did you not understand?

Ah, no need to get defensive, now. I was only expanding on your post.

I'm glad you now (apparently) understand the difference between wide groove and microgroove cutting.

icemandan01 wrote:so did you guys hear the one about a guy on here who spent two days messing with his machine only to find out all he had to do was change the record . got home from work tried a different record and it worked. i was completely shocked so a big red faced thank you to everyone who shared their advice. now all i have to do is put the original motor back in. then move this baby into the house. finally, thanks dan

Dan,

At least it was a simple and straight-forward resolution...

I benefited from following this thread...


Enjoy your machine !

Frank

(Now if I could just get my Pathéphone to run at a constant speed... )

Pathephones are notoriously bad for running at an even speed. I've seen plenty of nice Pathéphones and I know of only two that were able to play a record without serious speed fluctuations. It seems they used cr*p motors to drive their phonographs. It's a bit like French cars until the 1990s. Wonderful comfort, but oh those service bills...