The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

"I still can't believe they had him record on an upright, and I'll bet that was the idea of one T.A.E. "


Wasn't one of Tom's concrete pianos, was it ?

Edison's acoustic recordings of piano have always impressed me as being very good sounding, for being acoustic. Both on DD and cylinder records. This was probably due to his choice of an upright piano and the arrangement of it toward the recording horn in the studio. It looks cumbersome when one sees pictures of the recording setup, but the captured sound was superior in my view to other acoustic piano recordings. Diva performers probably didn't like this arrangement and perhaps made snide comments about it which may be the source of some of this angst between Edison and some of his talent.

Aesthetic taste aside, there is generally a noticeable difference in the action response of an upright piano when compared to a grand. Grands usually have a "quicker" action and rely on gravity to return the hammers & dampers to their resting positions.

Upright pianos are generally regarded as a compromise (both for space and budget constraint), both due to shorter speaking legnth of the strings and smaller soundboard, and an action that has more moving parts /friction and takes more effort to manipulate, and which relies on springs instead of gravity

That's not to say that there were not "good" uprights ( goodness knows there were /are some truly awful ones ! ), nor that the geometry of the upright piano didn't make it more suitable to acoustic recording, but given the choice between playing, say, a Steinway upright and (any) Steinway Grand piano in similar condition and tuning, a concert pianist is going to choose the grand because it "handles better".

It's not necessarily a matter of ego.


Of course, then you get into showmen like Horowitz who toured with his own specially "hot-rodded" Steinway D 9-foot concert grand which was "tweaked" to his performance needs, such as "doping" the hammers in the bass registers with lacquer to harden them up and give that "monster" bass sound that Horowitz was known for...

At 6' 4", "Rocky" didn't need no stinkin' juiced piano !

syncopeter wrote:I was writing about xylophones. What Adrian Rollini, Hampton and Jackson did for the vibraphone is stuff for legends. Red Norvo was afaik the only jazz musician to keep playing the xylophone.

Peter, you got me there, they are very similar yet different instruments, I suppose...

Sean

Sean,

The xylophone was eminently suited for the acoustic process. Hard attack, clear sound, not many overtones.
The vibraphone with its characteristic 'wawaha' echo could only be captured after RCA developed its famous photophonic microphones. Just listen to Venuti's (and Rollini's) Vibrophonia. Norvo preferred the more direct and flat sound of the xylophone, of which he was the absolute master imho. But play any Benny Goodman Quartet 78 and you're completely hooked to the masterful Hampton on vibes.

I have always found Edison records lacked the talent of other major companies.
But there was s short time when he recorded the likes of Sophie Tucker,
Irene Franklin, Josie Saddler, Grace Cameron, Anna Chandler. A lot of these
appear on the hard to find late 2 minute wax and 4 minute amberol. The
funny thing is at least Sophie Tucker was jewish. It is funny how the jazz
artists sound so different on Edison records!

"Frisco" was a very successful xylophone player in Vaudeville- he probably would have had a following. Don't underestimate the value of playing classical music on a popular instrument. A lot of people who wouldn't have been caught dead in an opera house or a concert hall were given some exposure to "Good Music" through such novelties- and that includes such things as Wagner overtures transcribed for Sodero's Band.

Edison didn't have the worst taste in music,I'd say he had rather narrow middle-brow tastes, not unlike many of his customers. Fortunately Theodore Edison took over the auditioning of dance bands in the 20's with the result that the company put out some quite hot recordings- (even with Ernest Stevens)

estott wrote:"Friscoe" was a very successful xylophone player in Vaudeville- he probably would have had a following. Don't underestimate the value of playing classical music on a popular instrument. A lot of people who wouldn't have been caught dead in an opera house or a concert hall were given some exposure to "Good Music" through such novelties- and that includes such things as Wagner overtures transcribed for Sodero's Band.

Edison didn't have the worst taste in music,I'd say he had rather narrow middle-brow tastes, not unlike many of his customers.

For your good reason, I thank you. The Edison vs Music silliness got tiresome about 20 years ago. Does anyone really think that Friscoe came up with this number just for an Edison record? Open any Victor or Columbia catalogue from that period and you'll see 90% deathly boring stuff.

So, Edison didn't cater to the musical tastes of collectors, 90 years in the future - what a surprise. One thing I'll say for Victor's Red Seal records: Most must've been bought for snob appeal, because they're almost always in unplayed condition!


ps - The "pounder" story is questionable. Ernest Stevens claimed to have heard it himself, yet he didn't work for Edison until several years later.

Edisone wrote:One thing I'll say for Victor's Red Seal records: Most must've been bought for snob appeal, because they're almost always in unplayed condition!

I would love to find your source for Red Seal records. I hardly ever fine one in unplayed condition, though they do tend to be in much better condition than the popular music recordings. Maybe some were bought for snob appeal, we'll never know, but I assume the reason so many survive in good condition is that they were much more expensive, and were meant to be listened to for years to come, not just a few months, or whatever the life of a popular tune was back then. Another reason could be that the Victor company themselves recommended that people not listen to their favorite recordings too often, as it could cause one to become tired of it through familiarity.

Edisone wrote:

estott wrote:"Friscoe" was a very successful xylophone player in Vaudeville- he probably would have had a following. Don't underestimate the value of playing classical music on a popular instrument. A lot of people who wouldn't have been caught dead in an opera house or a concert hall were given some exposure to "Good Music" through such novelties- and that includes such things as Wagner overtures transcribed for Sodero's Band.

Edison didn't have the worst taste in music,I'd say he had rather narrow middle-brow tastes, not unlike many of his customers.

For your good reason, I thank you. The Edison vs Music silliness got tiresome about 20 years ago. Does anyone really think that Friscoe came up with this number just for an Edison record? Open any Victor or Columbia catalogue from that period and you'll see 90% deathly boring stuff.

So, Edison didn't cater to the musical tastes of collectors, 90 years in the future - what a surprise. One thing I'll say for Victor's Red Seal records: Most must've been bought for snob appeal, because they're almost always in unplayed condition!

Here! Here!

I'm not sure it's fair to page through the Edison catalogues, point out numbers seemingly distasteful to many today and conclude Edison recordings are more boring than most. I'm not terribly interested in most of Edison's catalogue but neither am I interested in most of Victors catalogue. Here are some I really love, many can be over 4 minutes long by the way. Already posted on another thread but...
Georgia Melodians ~ 1924 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZuvZ6rLiGMQ
Original Memphis 5 ~1921? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ng27gI8MU6Q
Golden Gate Orch ~ 1925 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4nB_jUPaxfM
Broadway Dance Orch. ~1920 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BEnQOPFLaac
California Ramblers 1929 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mf3xzwgRiN4
Harry Raderman's Jazz orch. ~ 1920 (etched disc) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IaOi6dTQ6TA
Green Bros. Orch ~1920 (etched disc) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQV7C2CYFVg

And FINALLY... Silent Night...
Elizabeth Spencer ~ 1920 (Silent Night) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYWzhw2OC0k

Merry Christmas...