The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

Ahmed wrote: Sun Jul 17, 2022 2:48 pm It might be only the earlier examples which had it as you suggested Graham? The mystery deepens!

When you think about it, the additional support is nicely designed and would have required good/expensive machining/pattern-making. However, fitting had to be exact and there is little room for error. By contrast, spot-welding a flange to position, followed by full welding, would have been cheaper, easier to fit and allow certain very useful tolerances. It follows perhaps that the additional bracket system came first ?

emgcr wrote: Sun Jul 17, 2022 3:10 pm

Ahmed wrote: Sun Jul 17, 2022 2:48 pm It might be only the earlier examples which had it as you suggested Graham? The mystery deepens!

When you think about it, the additional support is nicely designed and would have required good/expensive machining/pattern-making. However, fitting had to be exact and there is little room for error. By contrast, spot-welding a flange to position, followed by full welding, would have been cheaper, easier to fit and allow certain very useful tolerances. It follows perhaps that the additional bracket system came first ?

That makes a lot of sense. Plus it's all just hidden at the back, so lots of work without much reward

epigramophone wrote: Sun Jul 17, 2022 11:06 am Alastair came to lunch today and we looked at this thread together.
His Senior does not have the additional conduit support, but it does have the diagonal brace rod on the horn.

Many thanks for that Roger.

My pedestal Expert Senior doesn't have the extra support bracket around the rear conduit either.

According to the Late Frank James, my example, similar to Graham's, is quite an early example.

Ha ! Many thanks Steve---so that would suggest a very short life for the bracket design which is surprising given the fact that Ginn seems to have applied for a patent which may have been quite expensive ?

A profane me myself, but looking at the photos, I also bid for the assumption that the well made support plate soldered to the conduit at the outlet from the case, with its four bolts attached to the case, seems an advance (and a much more elegant solution) over the additional support bracket, so seems that later models may have it.

Agreed, the bracket seems like an earlier design. The welded later design would have be a lot easier to setup to each cabinet.
It's the first time I had seen this bracket so good to know there are more. The bracket looks like aluminium but the conduit does look like some sort of iron.
Also interesting that Alasdair's Senior has a cross bar support. Looks like not much thought went into that cross support as the two All-Range machines I have seen have had their horns punctured by the rod.

If the rod punctures the horn, does this mean that there isn't any kind of metal ring around the horn at the guilty end, protecting the horn? It would have been such a simple solution...

I assume the rod was supposed to give extra support to the metal tongue support strap which is imbedded throughout the throat of the horn. A simple spot weld should have done the trick.

Inigo wrote: Mon Jul 18, 2022 1:06 am If the rod punctures the horn, does this mean that there isn't any kind of metal ring around the horn at the guilty end, protecting the horn? It would have been such a simple solution...

Expert often used an embedded metal ring at the final diameter to help keep the shape but, for the All Range where the cantilever is greater, should also have done so where the rod ends to dissipate the high pressure point load. Even a simple spreader plate would have conferred much greater structural integrity.