Page 2 of 3
Re: Which tone arm ?
Posted: Sat Nov 26, 2022 3:16 pm
by AmberolaAndy
Since you have a 4 spring motor so you got one of the nicer machines. VV-XIV to VV-XVII. Or VV-100 to VV 130. Is your cabinet an upright, flat top console, or humpback console?
You can identify what you have though this site
http://www.victor-victrola.com/product% ... mation.htm
Re: Which tone arm ?
Posted: Sat Nov 26, 2022 7:40 pm
by gramophoneshane
He doesn't have a cabinet if I'm reading the thread correctly.
He only has the motor, front and rear motor boards and the horn.
It's most likely what was discarded when the machine was upgraded to a liquor cabinet lol
To quote the gentleman
After the appropriate tone arm and reproducer is determined, the cabinet will be ordered in accordance with correct measurements and design.
It seems the old screw holes will identify the replacement tonearm, and the horn and size of the motor board will identify what model machine these parts were in originally, and they intend to build a new fake reproduction cabinet to the same specifications as an original , then add an original data plate to complete it.
That's my understanding of it all, but will gladly be corrected if I'm interpreting it wrong.
Re: Which tone arm ?
Posted: Sat Nov 26, 2022 10:34 pm
by AmberolaAndy
gramophoneshane wrote: Sat Nov 26, 2022 7:40 pm
He doesn't have a cabinet if I'm reading the thread correctly.
He only has the motor, front and rear motor boards and the horn.
It's most likely what was discarded when the machine was upgraded to a liquor cabinet lol
To quote the gentleman
After the appropriate tone arm and reproducer is determined, the cabinet will be ordered in accordance with correct measurements and design.
It seems the old screw holes will identify the replacement tonearm, and the horn and size of the motor board will identify what model machine these parts were in originally, and they intend to build a new fake reproduction cabinet to the same specifications as an original , then add an original data plate to complete it.
That's my understanding of it all, but will gladly be corrected if I'm interpreting it wrong.
Oh. So that’s what’s going on? I missed that post!
DOINK!
Re: Which tone arm ?
Posted: Sat Nov 26, 2022 10:43 pm
by Jerry B.
Do you have a cabinet?
Jerry B.
Re: Which tone arm ?
Posted: Sat Nov 26, 2022 11:17 pm
by Sherazhyder
It seems the old screw holes will identify the replacement tonearm, and the horn and size of the motor board will identify what model machine these parts were in originally, and they intend to build a new fake reproduction cabinet to the same specifications as an original , then add an original data plate to complete it.
That's my understanding of it all, but will gladly be corrected if I'm interpreting it wrong.
[/quote]
Yes yours is the correct understanding. But I am not convinced that this will be a fake. Let me raise this question that what qualifies a phonograph to be called ‘fake’ ? Is this about a phonograph with a replica machine or a replica body?
I am sure we all know Notre-Dame cathedral, which is undergoing a vast, €846 million ($865 million) reconstruction after being ravaged by a massive fire in April 2019, will reopen in 2024. Will people stop calling it the Notre-Dame cathedral after reopens? No it will remain what it was before the fire. We must not undermine the fact that every ‘ruin has the potential to shelter once again’ and every dead machine offers the historic frame for a contemporary rejuvenation.
Could there be anything nobler than giving clothes (a cabinet or a case) to a neat and functional motor with all its accessories ? How one abounds in love for phonographs would let it die merely for the reason that it does not meet one’s definition of antique, rare, genuine and collectible?
In my view there is a subtle difference between a phonograph lover and a phonograph exhibitionist. Definitely I am of the former type.
Before I conclude I will earnestly request you to address my basic question. Thanks and best regards
Re: Which tone arm ?
Posted: Sat Nov 26, 2022 11:20 pm
by Sherazhyder
Jerry B. wrote: Sat Nov 26, 2022 10:43 pm
Do you have a cabinet?
Jerry B.
No I do not have a cabinet but a strong will to get build one in solid mahogany for the mere pleasure of seeing a dead machine coming back to life. Cheers
Re: Which tone arm ?
Posted: Sat Nov 26, 2022 11:22 pm
by Sherazhyder
I do not have a cabinet but yes the motor, the board and all parts on it.
Re: Which tone arm ?
Posted: Sun Nov 27, 2022 12:31 am
by gramophoneshane
Sherazhyder wrote: Sat Nov 26, 2022 11:17 pm
Yes yours is the correct understanding. But I am not convinced that this will be a fake. Let me raise this question that what qualifies a phonograph to be called ‘fake’ ? Is this about a phonograph with a replica machine or a replica body?
I have a Trademark Model gramophone that was made in Japan. A reproduction, a fake, and it's soundbox and spring housing serial numbers identify it as such.
I could swap out those parts with originals, but it is and always will be a reproduction. A fake.
Yours too will be a fake reproduction, regardless of how well it's copied from an original because your cabinet was never made at the same time as originals, nor was it made by or for the Victor company like the originals, therefore it will forever be a reproduction cabinet housing original parts.
And there's nothing wrong with that, provided it's identified as such, or at least not been made with the intention to deceive, or causes any future confusion regarding its origin.
As for Notre Dame, it's a unique original that is being restored with the aid of reproduction elements because it's the only available option, and there's definitely no supply of Notre Dame cathedrals appearing on the market that may cause anyone the need to question its originality sometime in the future.
Re: Which tone arm ?
Posted: Sun Nov 27, 2022 1:22 am
by Sherazhyder
- Sir ! The antonym of ‘ original’ is ‘fake’ only when an object is not rebuilt or restored under the principle of conservation. Notre Dame is being rebuilt and thus restored as close to the original one as possible for the purpose of its historical conversation.
Production of a fake object involves criminality. Here I am making the full disclosure about my intent so mine is not going to be fake. It will definitely be a restoration.
Although you do not say so, the rebuilt Notre Dame on your test stone (the aid of reproduction elements) should be seen as ‘fake’.
I respectfully refer to a decently and earnestly rebuilt phonograph as a restoration with reproduced elements. In my case, it’s only the cabinet which is going to be rebuilt but the machines and it’s components will be original. Yes it may not fetch as good a price as the one with original cabinet. Should I throw away the motor and all its other parts to dustbin instead of giving them a body ?
I have felt that appreciation of phonographs has become the domain of antique evaluators whose judgement about every object ultimately culminates on its monetary value. How unfortunate that historical object have come to be seen in terms of volume of money one is willing to part with to possess them. In my views these objects are about collective happiness and thus a shared property. The very event of physically possessing them is a mere matter of chance and opportunity. Otherwise he/she has not added value to them except honestly taking care of them.!
Trust me there are individuals like me who are in love with these machines, who are more concerned about conservation of such objects without undermining their functionality and aesthetics.
Re: Which tone arm ?
Posted: Sun Nov 27, 2022 7:30 am
by poodling around
Sherazhyder wrote: Sun Nov 27, 2022 1:22 am
- I have felt that appreciation of phonographs has become the domain of antique evaluators whose judgement about every object ultimately culminates on its monetary value. How unfortunate that historical object have come to be seen in terms of volume of money one is willing to part with to possess them.
Very well said, if I may say.
I agree entirely.
DOINK! 