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The case is original; the horn is overpainted but probably also original (the Spanish horns are often different from the usual HMV/Victor horn), but... the backbracket (see connection to horn!), tone-arm, brake and soundbox aren't original. The winding handle isn't also original (probably from an earlier machine) and I'm not sure if it still has it's original motor because of a probably filled hole (on the right, front side); maybe the whole top plate was twisted ?

https://www.antiguedades.es/gramofonos- ... elo-5.html

Calle wrote: Tue Dec 27, 2022 12:25 pm The case is original; the horn is overpainted but probably also original (the Spanish horns are often different from the usual HMV/Victor horn), but... the backbracket (see connection to horn!), tone-arm, brake and soundbox aren't original. The winding handle isn't also original (probably from an earlier machine) and I'm not sure if it still has it's original motor because of a probably filled hole (on the right, front side); maybe the whole top plate was twisted ?

https://www.antiguedades.es/gramofonos- ... elo-5.html

They have added a picture of the motor. A simple, single spring Victor/HMV motor.

It's a No. 5 Monarch and although being Spanish makes it incredibly scarce in comparison to UK stock models, it is surprisingly, one of the most commonly found of the Spanish machines. The price must have been right for the quality of machine as this model appears to have sold fairly well. I've been tempted by a few mint examples to go with my No. 9 and No. 13C, but as Carlos says, good examples are several thousand Euros as it only seems to be the high end continental dealers who ever get offered them.

I concur the soundbox, tonearm back bracket, speed control and horn are definitely not original to it. The horn is a Crapophone horn. The winder is correct. This is an earlier example with the forward position winder.

A link posted above to Jose's site shows what it should look like. I can recommend Jose as a reliable Spanish dealer. He found my 13C and the very strange colonial machine I have with oil bath motor.

Thanks JerryVan I hadn't seen it yet... Looks like it's the original motor... But in my opinion the backbracket isn't 100% original and converted to fit the elbow... Also the tone arm isn't original (maybe Pathé ?).
In my opinion: a lot of woodworm, not original parts, simple motor, questionable horn and so on... I wouldn't pay more than $600 (despite it may be worth more...).

Calle wrote: Tue Dec 27, 2022 3:54 pm Thanks JerryVan I hadn't seen it yet... Looks like it's the original motor... But in my opinion the backbracket isn't 100% original and converted to fit the elbow... Also the tone arm isn't original (maybe Pathé ?).
In my opinion: a lot of woodworm, not original parts, simple motor, questionable horn and so on... I wouldn't pay more than $600 (despite it may be worth more...).

We added posts at the same time but if you see my post directly above yours you'll see I agree with you regarding the odd parts which aren't original to it. As to value, well it's in the States and from my experience most American collectors do not have much interest in buying non-US machines from foreign Victor affiliates. I think it would be near impossible to correctly restore it so I don't think it will fetch anywhere close to your top "offer" anyway. A complete example on the European continent would be more like 2000-2500 Euros, with the scarcer bigger models being in the region of 3000-4000 Euros. Add a distinctive Spanish horn or a wooden horn to those models and you're looking around 5000-6000 Euros.

Did anyone see what it brought? Last I saw it was at $200.

$200 when the hammer dropped

Not surprising at all.