VICTOR XVI L-DOOR PROJECT

[Inigo]

That was an important piano maker...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heintzman_%26_Co.
Wiki doesn't mention their involvement with Gramophones, though...

[streetmechanic14]

My circassian XVI (sn 17890) looks like a close contemporary of yours and the restoration project might be less challenging than it appears at first. I'll happily stand corrected if a real L-door expert differs but it looks to me like cheaper wood (birch? gumwood?) was used for most of the interior wooden parts of these early Victrolas, Victor simply staining (or more accurately "tinting") the material to match the cabinet exterior. The horn looks to be mahogany, probably bleached to defeat its natural bright red color and then tinted. It's not hard to imagine the motor boards being made in quantity and left unfinished until it was decided what machine (mahogany, oak or walnut) they would be matched to. I think these motor boards were fixed to the cabinet with two round-head blued steel wood screws.

[JeffR1]

So the motor board does just sit on top, the witness marks can be seen in the first post and where the part cut out on the left side won't really matter.
Even the right side won't need too much attention.

From the above photos, I think the motor board is made from satin walnut.

[PHONOMIKE]

My circassian XVI (sn 17890) looks like a close contemporary of yours and the restoration project might be less challenging than it appears at first. I'll happily stand corrected if a real L-door expert differs but it looks to me like cheaper wood (birch? gumwood?) was used for most of the interior wooden parts of these early Victrolas, Victor simply staining (or more accurately "tinting") the material to match the cabinet exterior. The horn looks to be mahogany, probably bleached to defeat its natural bright red color and then tinted. It's not hard to imagine the motor boards being made in quantity and left unfinished until it was decided what machine (mahogany, oak or walnut) they would be matched to. I think these motor boards were fixed to the cabinet with two round-head blued steel wood screws.

Thank you for the info and taking the pics. Upon closer look, I think a correct size motor board will cover most if not all of the damaged area so there won't be a need to dismantle the top at all. Ours are very close in manufacturing with my serial number being 17879. The difference I notice is yours has the screw holes on the sides of the motor board just as early VTLA units and mine has no evidence of side screws however there are 4 corner screw holes which appear to be original. But I also can't confirm there were not side screws as the top board has been butchered on the sides. The screw holes are 14 ¼" to the sides and 14 ½" front to back. The old dust marks indicate the motor board to be about 15 ¼" square. But again those holes may have been drilled then covered with the board and side screws installed.

Do any other members have a "B" model L-door they can chime in on or share pictures with? Thanks.

Mike

[Django]

The dust line that you are seeing is from the felt. The actual motorboard overhangs the opening by 1 ⅜", (35 mm). My "B" is a little earlier than yours, s/n 16672B, but the motorboard should be the same. The overall is 13 ¼" by 13 ¼", (336.55 mm). The part that fits into the opening is 10 ½" by 10 ½", (266.7 mm). The boards are mitered with a square, 8 ¼" by 8 ¼", (209.55 mm), center section. The overall thickness is ¾", (19.05 mm). The large portion is 13/32" thick, (10.05 mm). The attached sketch shows the edge profile. I think that the motorboard will cover the damage.

Like the horn on my Oak L-Door "C" and the one shown earlier, the horn is light colored Mahogany and the motoboard appears to be unfigured Walnut. If you have access to a planer, radial arm saw or miter box and a router table, the motorboard should not be too difficult to reproduce. I had to make one for my Pooley VTLA, (first picture). It is a little different, but the job is very similar.

[PHONOMIKE]

The dust line that you are seeing is from the felt. The actual motorboard overhangs the opening by 1 ⅜", (35 mm). My "B" is a little earlier than yours, s/n 16672B, but the motorboard should be the same. The overall is 13 ¼" by 13 ¼", (336.55 mm). The part that fits into the opening is 10 ½" by 10 ½", (266.7 mm). The boards are mitered with a square, 8 ¼" by 8 ¼", (209.55 mm), center section. The overall thickness is ¾", (19.05 mm). The large portion is 13/32" thick, (10.05 mm). The attached sketch shows the edge profile. I think that the motorboard will cover the damage.

Like the horn on my Oak L-Door "C" and the one shown earlier, the horn is light colored Mahogany and the motoboard appears to be unfigured Walnut. If you have access to a planer, radial arm saw or miter box and a router table, the motorboard should not be too difficult to reproduce. I had to make one for my Pooley VTLA, (first picture). It is a little different, but the job is very similar.

WOW. I ask for some info and you delivered! This will be a huge help. I'm no carpenter and I know my limits so I won't even try to tackle this. It will take me a bit of time to get this project to completion but feel more confident now that the motor board won't be the biggest issue anymore. I'm now thinking the bottom drawer will be harder to find. I'm hoping to find a beat up L-door to source this one.

Thanks again for all the info. I really is greatly appreciated.

Mike

[Django]

You’re very welcome. I enjoy restoration stories, especially with pictures.

I hope that you will keep us informed of your progress. It could be a lot worse. Very cool project. Best of luck.

[Watanabehi]

I said I wasn't going to do this anymore. Then this came up for sale not far from me and I couldn't resist. A circassian walnut L-door XVI. And I only paid $60 for it. OK before anyone starts commenting "deal of the year", I did say it's a project. The machine looks great and most of the wood is present, but the inside is gutted. The old owner made it into a beverage bar. I understand the appeal by some to do this, but to do it to a circassian walnut machine? It boggles the mind. The person obviously had no idea what they had.

If you look at the pictures, you'll understand. I've already removed the added interior parts of this "bar" as to stop insulting it. And I will try my best to bring it back to its former glory. So I will need some parts. A few I have lying around but I've decided to go after the really difficult pieces first. If I can't find those, no sense in buying the others. And if I can't make it happen then it will return to a beverage bar. The machine has it's original finish and that will clean up nice. I need to find a good (great) woodworker for the top part. To somehow rebuild the top board and make the color match. I used to know such a guy but he has since retired.

So my first piece I am looking to buy is a motor board. This is a "B" model machine and the board measures 10 ¼" - 10 ⅜" square. Circassian would be great from another scrap machine, but I think I have a better chance with walnut or maybe even oak could be stained to match close.

If someone (anyone) can help it is much appreciated. If I can get a couple big missing parts (and the top board repaired) this will be an amazing machine again.

Thanks in advance for all help and advice.

Mike

What an unusual grain patterns!! It seems to be very rare. Good luck for the restoration.

[Watanabehi]

I said I wasn't going to do this anymore. Then this came up for sale not far from me and I couldn't resist. A circassian walnut L-door XVI. And I only paid $60 for it. OK before anyone starts commenting "deal of the year", I did say it's a project. The machine looks great and most of the wood is present, but the inside is gutted. The old owner made it into a beverage bar. I understand the appeal by some to do this, but to do it to a circassian walnut machine? It boggles the mind. The person obviously had no idea what they had.

If you look at the pictures, you'll understand. I've already removed the added interior parts of this "bar" as to stop insulting it. And I will try my best to bring it back to its former glory. So I will need some parts. A few I have lying around but I've decided to go after the really difficult pieces first. If I can't find those, no sense in buying the others. And if I can't make it happen then it will return to a beverage bar. The machine has it's original finish and that will clean up nice. I need to find a good (great) woodworker for the top part. To somehow rebuild the top board and make the color match. I used to know such a guy but he has since retired.

So my first piece I am looking to buy is a motor board. This is a "B" model machine and the board measures 10 ¼" - 10 ⅜" square. Circassian would be great from another scrap machine, but I think I have a better chance with walnut or maybe even oak could be stained to match close.

If someone (anyone) can help it is much appreciated. If I can get a couple big missing parts (and the top board repaired) this will be an amazing machine again.

Thanks in advance for all help and advice.

Mike

What an unusual grain pattern!! It seems to be very rare. Good luck for the restoration.

[audiophile102]

I asked Roger Merenkov who I consider an expert on all things Victrola. He said the motor boards were all made of birch wood including the cercassian walnut machines.