The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

I think most of would agree that if it needs polishing, it needs polishing. After saying that, I remember someone that refused to clean a machine because it would remove the original owner's finger prints and that machine needed to be cleaned and polished. Jerry

If the brass were green or even black, then I would probably lean towards cleaning & polishing, but I think I would leave this horn alone.

There is some difference between the American way of restoring and the European way. Europeans tend to leave the patina there, only maybe degreasing the metal with a very mild solution and then sealing it with a clear laquer. Americans often try to restore to 'as new' condition, meaning stripping down, polishing and sealing again. I'm in favour of the European method, as long as a machine is in original condition. It may take another 100 years to get the patina back again. So repairing broken or worn parts is OK to me, but I do like the original look of a machine scratches, warts and all. An over-restore machine just doesn't do the trick for me. I'm 54 and have a lot of wrinkles too. But I'm fond of everyone, showing that I have lived and not been deep-frozen.

Thanks for all the responses. I was going to polish this horn only because when new it would have been. However,in light of these comments and given the fact that it is a "even" patina. I have decided to leave it as it is. Worst case,the next owner can always do the polishing .As an owner of antique brass beds. I know only too well the pain in the butt it can be to keep them up to shine. At least with this patina there are no finger prints .
Wayne

The only brass horn I own is on my Talk-O-Phone. It looked completely awful when I got it... the brass area was totally black. I tried a bunch of various methods (metal polish, vinegar, buffing wheel) and nothing could make it shiny. I finally got it halfway to a recognizable brass color and left it alone. As it is, it looks like an aged, reasonable horn with some patina. I like it.

syncopeter wrote:There is some difference between the American way of restoring and the European way.

I've noticed that Europeans paint with a broad brush.

Retrograde wrote:

syncopeter wrote:There is some difference between the American way of restoring and the European way.

I've noticed that Europeans paint with a broad brush.

Depends on who they're painting?

Since this question is primarily a matter of preference, I wasn't going to reply. I was tempted by the posting comparing the "American way" vs. European way," but Retrograde handled that perfectly. But I'm a little surprised that no one has offered a "pro-polish" viewpoint, so I'll do it. Sort of.

Frankly, I ascribe to both perspectives. I like the brass to match the paint and other metals on a given machine. If the machine is pristine, a tarnished brass horn detracts from it in my opinion. On the other hand, if the machine is just this side of needing a refinishing, the brass shouldn't shine like a mirror. I strive for consistency and moderation.

That said, I have no brown brass horns in my collection. When I restore a talking machine, leaving dirt, grease, or rust on it seems crazy. Those things don't belong there, so I remove them. The paint revealed under the dirt and grease may not be perfect, but as long as its presentable, it's okay. The nickel plate may not look new once it's clean, but that's okay too. So what makes brass so special? I don't collect coins; I collect complete talking machines of which the horns are a component. That "patina" is oxidation - - first cousin to rust - - and in my world, that should be kept to a minimum. The brass does not look like new after it's polished, and that's okay too.

I have horns that I've polished by hand, and every 5 or 10 years, they need re-polishing. They start looking worse than the machine. Some other horns have been professionally polished and sealed. They are shinier and brighter than the ones I do by hand, but the condition of the machines they're on warrant that appearance. They still don't look new.

Then there are talking machines that look like they were made yesterday. I don't own any, and believe it or not, I'm an American!

George P.

Good points, George...

Were brass horns originally polished to a mirror-like shine ?

Were they lacquered?

Were any left as "raw" brass ( unpolished) or satin-brass (matte)?

From contemporary photos, it appears that brass horns were originally polished nicely - much like brass band instruments. Beyond that, who can know? Some were undoubtedly lacquered at the time, but whether this was done by the manufacturer or the owner is open to question, and may have varied between manufacturers.

I'd like to see some period documentation addressing this.

George P.