The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

I didn't read "Dealer," but "Deuler."

If it was "deuler", it is a word with no sensible meaning...

Curt, I think you may be right with Patrino. My conclusion yesterday is that it had to be a family name, since I couldn't find a dictionary word that worked. Also, the final letter being an "o" instead of an "s" was one of my theories.

Jim

hmmm...

You "Patrino" guys have lost me here. The 'phonograph dealer' was not named "Patrino" - and the phrase given (under investigation) was in the 'Occupation Column' of the 1900 US Census.

From what we know (elsewhere) of his activities in lower Manhattan at the time, he was selling: toys, umbrellas, canes, parasols, novelties, fancy goods, advertising specialties and exports, etc. (and for a while, late 1890s, some small phonographs w/cylinders).

I think he was of Italian extraction (but born in NYC), if that helps any.

Allen

AllenKoe wrote: Wed Aug 23, 2023 3:42 pm hmmm...

You "Patrino" guys have lost me here. The 'phonograph dealer' was not named "Patrino" - and the phrase given (under investigation) was in the 'Occupation Column' of the 1900 US Census.

From what we know (elsewhere) of his activities in lower Manhattan at the time, he was selling: toys, umbrellas, canes, parasols, novelties, fancy goods, advertising specialties and exports, etc. (and for a while, late 1890s, some small phonographs w/cylinders).

I think he was of Italian extraction (but born in NYC), if that helps any.

Allen

I believe that the term "Patrino Dealer" that Curt suggested, was perhaps a term that transcended the actual name of the individual. Kind of like the words "Band-Aide" and "Frigidaire". I believe the term may have become a universal one, for anyone selling a multitude of wares, regardless of their actual last name. That appears to be the theory anyway.

Hi Jerry,

I did not realize that "Patrino Dealer" had become a word/phrase in Italian or English, around 1900.

If that meant a 'variety store,' or a 'jobber of novelties,' I am all ears.

But I didn't get that drift from the Ancestry "quote." Could "Patrons Dealer" (misspelled) be a reference to "wholesale," perhaps...?

Thx.

Allen

AllenKoe wrote: Wed Aug 23, 2023 4:38 pm Hi Jerry,

I did not realize that "Patrino Dealer" had become a word/phrase in Italian or English, around 1900.

Thx.

Allen

Nor did I Allen. I was just following through on Curt's theory. If it were part of the jargon of that era, I would guess that it was a highly localized thing.

Apparently, you don't like the "Patrino" idea, but it's the only one that fits. Patrino is a documented name in NYC at that time and it fits the lettering and number of letters. Your guess of Patrons doesn't make sense...

You haven't given enough info to figure this out.
1-Who/what are you looking for - exactly? Does this have ANYTHING to do with phonographs?
2-You said Patrino is not the name of the "dealer" - then what IS the name? Full name, address, any other info.
3-You said US Census 1900 - Which one? New York state, NYC - if so, which borough? Manhattan, Queens, Brooklyn, Bronx, Staten Island?
4-Where did you find the original document with this writing? Why can't you provide a full image of the entire document - not just the two words?
5-What is the purpose of your inquiry?

Jerry,
I did not suggest that the two words "Patrino" and "Dealer" were a descriptive phrase/theory. It is what it is: two words that have no specific meaning - a puzzle to figure out.

Allen, your quote:
"From what we know (elsewhere) of his activities in lower Manhattan at the time, he was selling: toys, umbrellas, canes, parasols, novelties, fancy goods, advertising specialties and exports, etc. (and for a while, late 1890s, some small phonographs w/cylinders).

I think he was of Italian extraction (but born in NYC), if that helps any."

WHO is HE and what do WE know from elsewhere (WHERE)?

Hi Curt,

It's just related phonograph research, for a possible article. Working third-hand, I was supplied with a Dealer in downtown Manhattan (NYC), and the little snippet ('Patriens Dealer' - sic) is from the US Census as the Occupation.

The items sold in the shop were quite a hodge-podge, besides the little phonographs: Umbrellas, Toys, novelties, canes, advertising exports, etc. Sounds like a fancy "99-cent" store to me...

I was thus trying to think of some 'turn-of-the-century' term for a jobber or wholesaler.

The name of the (cylinder) phonograph was "Euphonic" - as you probably know, it is quite rare. Although shown in the 1898 Phonoscope, it has (thus far) never been found. It looked a bit like the Amet Echophone.

Best
Allen