The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

brianu wrote:
I agree. call whatever by whatever term you like, just don't necessarily expect people to know what you're talking about. I only wrote what I did because he was getting sidetracked suggestions about repairing the elbow - because he used the term elbow - despite that nothing is wrong with the actual elbow on his machine, that instead the problem is with that collar (or whatever you'd want to call it) that's attached to the horn and holds the horn in the elbow. I too was curious about the best way to fix such a problem because I've had wooden horns on which that collar was pretty loose and could easily be turned - his has come complete detached.

Unless some previous posts were deleted, I don't see any evidence as to where the original poster was being side-tracked. There are 3 prior posts that all seem to identify what the most likely problem is, including yours. W/o pictures, it is difficult to judge how severe the damage is, and whether it requires professional repair.

Bill

Amberola 1-A wrote:

brianu wrote:
I agree. call whatever by whatever term you like, just don't necessarily expect people to know what you're talking about. I only wrote what I did because he was getting sidetracked suggestions about repairing the elbow - because he used the term elbow - despite that nothing is wrong with the actual elbow on his machine, that instead the problem is with that collar (or whatever you'd want to call it) that's attached to the horn and holds the horn in the elbow. I too was curious about the best way to fix such a problem because I've had wooden horns on which that collar was pretty loose and could easily be turned - his has come complete detached.

Unless some previous posts were deleted, I don't see any evidence as to where the original poster was being side-tracked. There are 3 prior posts that all seem to identify what the most likely problem is, including yours. W/o pictures, it is difficult to judge how severe the damage is, and whether it requires professional repair.

Bill

I know the original poster and have spoken to him about the problem with his horn. it has nothing to do with the elbow. his concern is with the collar (that attaches the horn to the elbow)... it has become detached from the wood horn itself and he's trying to figure out the best way to reattach it (I'm curious about that as well).

so basically, the horn is only riding low and insecurely in the elbow because the collar has become detached from the wood of the horn. I don't know how to be any clearer. and I only posted something to clarify his problem because there seemed to be some confusion among people who were offering possible solutions. no offense was intended.

brianu wrote:

Amberola 1-A wrote:

brianu wrote:
I agree. call whatever by whatever term you like, just don't necessarily expect people to know what you're talking about. I only wrote what I did because he was getting sidetracked suggestions about repairing the elbow - because he used the term elbow - despite that nothing is wrong with the actual elbow on his machine, that instead the problem is with that collar (or whatever you'd want to call it) that's attached to the horn and holds the horn in the elbow. I too was curious about the best way to fix such a problem because I've had wooden horns on which that collar was pretty loose and could easily be turned - his has come complete detached.

Unless some previous posts were deleted, I don't see any evidence as to where the original poster was being side-tracked. There are 3 prior posts that all seem to identify what the most likely problem is, including yours. W/o pictures, it is difficult to judge how severe the damage is, and whether it requires professional repair.

Bill

I know the original poster and have spoken to him about the problem with his horn. it has nothing to do with the elbow. his concern is with the collar (that attaches the horn to the elbow)... it has become detached from the wood horn itself and he's trying to figure out the best way to reattach it (I'm curious about that as well).

so basically, the horn is only riding low and insecurely in the elbow because the collar has become detached from the wood of the horn. I don't know how to be any clearer. and I only posted something to clarify his problem because there seemed to be some confusion among people who were offering possible solutions. no offense was intended.

OK...I am the original poster...also a poser of somebody with any knowledge of these horns. I have posted some pictures that will hopefully help.

brianu is correct in stating that it is the collar that has lososened up from the wood horn. It has not come off though, and it actually will not. The rivet on the collar that goes in the bayonett slot has in essence been cut in half over the years. The collar looks like it has been glued many years ago. The problem remains, that when the collar is fully pushed onto the horn, then the horn and collar are inserted into the elbow, and then the assembly mounted to the tone arm, the wood portion of the horn drops down in the collar so much that the horn nearly lowers itself to the turntable. You can see from the pictures that the collar looks very beat up. I am going to see Don Gfell at an upcoming show. Any other thoughts?

Bill[/quote]


I know the original poster and have spoken to him about the problem with his horn. it has nothing to do with the elbow. his concern is with the collar (that attaches the horn to the elbow)... it has become detached from the wood horn itself and he's trying to figure out the best way to reattach it (I'm curious about that as well).

so basically, the horn is only riding low and insecurely in the elbow because the collar has become detached from the wood of the horn. I don't know how to be any clearer. and I only posted something to clarify his problem because there seemed to be some confusion among people who were offering possible solutions. no offense was intended.[/quote]


OK...I am the original poster...also a poser of somebody with any knowledge of these horns. I have posted some pictures that will hopefully help.

brianu is correct in stating that it is the collar that has lososened up from the wood horn. It has not come off though, and it actually will not. The rivet on the collar that goes in the bayonett slot has in essence been cut in half over the years. The collar looks like it has been glued many years ago. The problem remains, that when the collar is fully pushed onto the horn, then the horn and collar are inserted into the elbow, and then the assembly mounted to the tone arm, the wood portion of the horn drops down in the collar so much that the horn nearly lowers itself to the turntable. You can see from the pictures that the collar looks very beat up. I am going to see Don Gfell at an upcoming show. Any other thoughts? [/quote]


Interesting, I now felt inside of the horn under the collar as one reply suggested.. I was looking for the back of the rivet as was described to see if it had come loose since the face side (the part that goes into the elbow) is actually cut in half (at least) as you can see in the picture. Surprise....there is no rivet going all the way through the horn and through the inner collar at all nor even a hole where it would have been. This must be a different mounting than that one described. Based on the denting all around the collars edge, this looks more like a compression fitting of sorts. That would match with the fact that there is no rivet hole.

Jeff

As I understand it, these collars are made in 2 pieces; an outside one that contains the locating pin and slips over the small end of the horn and an inside piece that is pressed into the throat of the horn and acts as a wedge to hold the pieces together. I have heard somewhere that when these loosen, you can press the inside part back down into the horn to regain a tight fit. I've never been into one of these myself, however I looked my spearpoint over very carefully and am also certain that the rivet doesn't go all the way through.

Jim