The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

As Inigo says, Soundgen is the most reliable supplier of new needles in the UK. I have a supply of NOS Columbia and HMV needles which I keep in reserve should Mike ever decide to retire.
I never use anything louder than Soft tone indoors, and the volume of my E.M.Ginn Expert is such that Extra Soft tone is quite loud enough for all but the quietest records.
The finer the needle, the kinder it is to records. I only use Loud tone when playing portables outdoors. I have heard it said that if you need to use Loud tone indoors, there may be something wrong with your soundbox or possibly your hearing.

I think what is really needed here is probably a low cost "needle sharp and polish" fixture that works something like the good old pencil sharpeners *some* (well most?) (-: of us saw in school.
Does this exist?

While on this subject, does everyone here know that fantastic microscope exists for your phones using apps that not only allow great photos but also video? All for the scary price of less than 20 dollars.
(Sigh, now I will have to post before and after play pics of a needle I guess. )

Thanks for the additional information about Steel needles. I didn't realize that the "new" ones are not able at times to enter the groove.

Marc

That's nothing new. Every maker of quality needles insisted on using their needles because of good manufacture and quality control. Evidently, when they said "never use cheap needles, they will destroy your records" they referred to the point. Manufacture of steel needles involved cutting the wire in parts and then grinding and polishing processes in mills mixed with abrasive granules, etc (I read this somewhere...). These processes were better when more successive steps of abrasion were taken, for longer grinding times, etc. and later an inspection, selection of the good points and calibers, and discarding the bad needles. Evidently cheaper needle makers dispensed with some of these intermediate steps and the resulting product is randomly bad. That's why Victor, Columbia, Odeon, HMV, etc insisted on using only their brand of needles, and although they were more expensive, they were carefully manufactured and the proportion of bad points was very, very low. I must also say that bad needle manufacturers must have existed, but I've never found bad needles. I've always used NOS of the usual large manufacturers, plus the needles bought from soundgen in UK (bought a large stock of 10,000 years ago, and other lots of 5,000), and also from Phonoservice (Barry Williamson) from Liverpool, who are now out of service.
All this and the quality of steel wire used, of course...

Indigo, you've hit the nail square on the head!

*Inigo

It would be extremely enlightening to see a comprehensive video of the process of manufacturing, grinding, and polishing
high quality steel 78 rpm needles.

Every time we play a 78 rpm record we are grinding a way just a little bit of history. I don't know about the rest of you but I would be willing to pay a bit more to be able to play and hear these discs on these machines as intended while inflicting as little damage as possible.

This is also a good place to bring up non damaging record lubrication choices if there are any. I have yet to see any surface to surface contact that would not wear less in the presence of a lubricant.
Perhaps another topic is warranted.

Before it's mentioned, obviously I can play my discs on my reference Technics I converted to 78s but what fun is that? (-:

PeteLeoni wrote: Tue Nov 07, 2023 11:14 am ...Every time we play a 78 rpm record we are grinding a way just a little bit of history. I don't know about the rest of you but I would be willing to pay a bit more to be able to play and hear these discs on these machines as intended while inflicting as little damage as possible.
...

PeteLeoni wrote: Tue Nov 07, 2023 11:27 am Before it's mentioned, obviously I can play my discs on my reference Technics I converted to 78s but what fun is that? (-:

Generally speaking, the "modern turntable for 78s" approach is how I play any lateral about which I actually care. (For one play only, I recently made one very noteworthy exception, but I'll leave more about that for when I finish the associated article that I'm writing.) For acoustic machines, I like the approach of a collector friend: keep a stock of what he called "steel needle records," common issues in decent but less than pristine condition. Not every record that gets worn playing with steel needles is a loss to history; one somewhat worn copy more or less of Caruso singing O Sole Mio, or of Paul Whiteman and His Orchestra playing "The Japanese Sandman," isn't going to matter much to posterity. But no steel needle is going anywhere near any of my three or four "sole known copy" test pressings!

As to "what fun is that," well, plenty--for a start, just figuring out the right speed for acoustic recordings is always good for hours of it. Not to mention deciding on the right stylus size and profile...

That's all for lateral cut. For verticals, at least Pathé and Edison, acoustic machines are my default. For whatever reason, I find these records usually play better on the machines that were designed for them, and with jeweled styli the question of record wear isn't as big an issue as with steel needles. Even here, having acquired one of the Wilson Home players, I'm experimenting with electrical playback of cylinders, although so far the results have been a bit mixed.