The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

The following quote is from the following YouTube created by the Jim Crow Museum.

"Imagine if you were a white American, you didn't know a lot of African Americans and the only depictions or portrayals of African Americans that you saw were from the minstrel stage. There you would find dressed in blackface white Americans pretending to be African Americans and then later African Americans darkening their skins pretending to be even darker African Americans acting as buffoons and idiots and the like. Those shows became central to the creation, the legitimization, the spread of the ideas and beliefs that African Americans were inferior others." - Dr. David Pilgrim

Here's a link to educational talk about the museum and its purpose ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=deskt ... e=emb_logo

What were coon songs?
https://jimcrowmuseum.ferris.edu/question/2005/may.htm

If you need to own it, just know it's a form of poison.
James.

People who forget their history are condemned to repeat it....

Inigo wrote: Mon Feb 05, 2024 12:51 am People who forget their history are condemned to repeat it....

And that's the conundrum. Not liking that history is just fine. Making amends for that history is far better. But how can you make amends for something you have forgotten? Or something you deny? Or something you're not allowed to see or hear? Better yet how does one learn from it? "I had nothing to do with it, though", says the descendant of slave owners, Nazis, KKK members, and colonialists. Fair enough, but does that mean you should be ignorant of what it is?

Our time would be better spent addressing the problems of today instead of dredging up the mistakes of the past.
We cannot change the past, but we should learn from it instead of trying to censor it.

I would strongly urge everyone to watch Spike Lee’s ‘Bamboozled’.
This is the closing montage:
https://youtu.be/qwNEqdBRbeI?si=IVPsOr5tgr85KN3B

Interesting topic indeed.
My point of view is that these things should not be looked at with “modern” eyes and minds but in the wider context of the time they were made.
I have for instance records from Germany in the late thirties. That does not make me a National socialist. Just as owning a “coon” record does not make you a racist.
Enjoy the history

PeterF wrote: Sun Feb 04, 2024 7:02 pm You sure as hell can.

And should.

In my decades in this hobby I’ve come across plenty of people who try to use “historical artifact” as a protective smokescreen for old racist stuff.

Don’t. Be clear with yourself about what it is, and treat it accordingly.

One can look at any number of terrible old things, ranging from stuff like ads with doctors recommending a brand of cigarette, to confederate banknotes, to an old KKK robe found in a thrift store wardrobe, to slave ship manifests, to auction block leg manacles. Where is the point where we are to not just shake our heads while chuckling “different times…” and instead be offended or outraged?

Sure, listen to the stuff and learn about it, but then think real hard about whether it belongs in your house.

I am glad someone said it!

Not just having stuff like that in your house, but who you choose to associate with as well. If I go to a bar or a party and some AH starts spouting racial crap, I just leave. For 20 years I had lunch almost every Saturday with a close "friend" who was extremely right-wing. We would discuss, and argue current political topics of the day, sometimes vehemently, and part with a hug and a "see ya next week!" But then, despite the fact that both he and I are parents, he started to justify the separation of families at the TexMex border and their subsequent geographically different incarcerations. It so violated my principles and sensibilities that I haven't spoken to him since.

Raphael

one might say I'm not guilty for the sins of my great, great grandfather

I say that we are sleeping in the bed we made and will continue to do so

...and this now has little to do with the intent of this topic and nothing to do with "Machines". As we know, we have little to no supervision on this forum. Can we please recognize how much further this debate will go without all of us recognizing how ugly it can get and how destructive it could become? Regardless of your personal views on the matter, I think we can all agree that this is not what we want this great forum to become. Honestly, I've been very proud of everyone on this forum for our great self control in not going down these avenues in the past, especially given the lack of supervision. Thanks to all for that, and hoping that we can reign in our comments in this case, for the good of this excellent resource. Not denying that this is a worthy topic of discussion and debate, and not suggesting we pretend these issues don't exist, but please... not here. Let's be friends, despite our differences.