The Use of Historic Names

[Starkton]

At least it is kept in America, if I did not keep the name alive, here,it would be used by someone from china, or India. How come a mention of it now? I have used the name since the mid 1990s, it was New North American Phonograph Co., in 1996,a few years after I was out of high school. I will have several articles, in the newsletter" In The Groove." On cylinder record manufacture. I started a column in 1990 when I was 16 called "The Antique Phonograph Corner." in a small publication called "The Collector" until 1997. I am Not a colector,but rather a hands on recording engineer, and service man. I have about ten talking machines, and. They were all basket cases as I am not able to afford pristine machines. I have thousands of hours of time, making wax formulations, molding blanks, and recording cylinders, it is a hobby, on a shoestring budget. I do most of my work for artists,museums and movies, theme parks, and the recording industry. I only make blanks for collectors, not so much recordings.

I read between the lines that you run an unregistered business using unregistered names on a shoestring budget. That is all fine with me and I support that you enthusiastically dedicate yourself to your projects. But why do you cover up the facts? Why do you claim in public to have purchased the assets (which one??) of a non-existing company? Why do you call yourself "President" of such a company? Why do you make us believe you have a legal right to use such names? Why do you grant unsuspecting laymen the right to use historic names (at least you advised them to "double check" with more responsible parties)?

Take my advice, drop your false claims and stick to "New North American Phonograph Co." and "Shawn Borri Phonograph Works". This makes good reading, does yourself justice, and at the same time doesn't muddy the waters for researchers and laymen who are interested in historical contexts and names, or intend to work with it.

[Amberola 1-A]

With all due respect, this ad hominum attack was totally unwarranted and completely irrelevant. Other than one person, I don't believe anyone else here has been adversely affected by how Mr. Borri conducts his business and I'm sure many here have benefited by his research into, and construction of, early recordable sound media.

Bill

[WDC]

While just reading this thread and related posts, I feel urged to say that it is reasonable to ask for the truth. No one is questioning the remarkable accomplishments Shawn has made or his profession. I still remember his demonstration of AC/DC on his electrically recorded blanks which was simply amazing. The questioning was only posted after his own statement, that he did own the name rights. And I have read this several times on other mailing lists too over the last years. If you do perform a lot of historic business research it can be quite frustrating to mix them up.

Just out of curiosity, I now checked a possible status at www.uspto.gov. There is or was no associated trademark registered.

So, thank you both Starkton and Shawn for clarification. I am glad that we have enthusiasts like Shawn around who have explored the knowledge of wax cylinder manufacture. There are only a handful of people around who are doing this. But I am also pleased to just have rectified my personal knowledge which, as I think, is an essential part when dealing with history.
Peace on earth.

[Amberola 1-A]

Just out of curiosity, I now checked a possible status at www.uspto.gov. There is or was no associated trademark registered.

Perhaps it is different in Germany, but here in the U.S. you don't need to file in order to claim a trademark (TM), although it is wise to do so as it gives you the sole rights and legal redress in a court of law if someone else tries to use it. That is probably why you could find nothing regarding 'The North American Phonograph Company.'

Bill

[WDC]

Thank you Bill, again something I wasn't aware of. No, we do not have common law trademark rights. And to make possible researchers more hysteric, I just also read, that "multiple parties may simultaneously use a mark throughout the country or even state." However, it is not mentioned if the same business field is legitimate. By that, everybody can found his personal NAPCO.

[Swing Band Heaven]

Its not so much the question that was asked, but the way in which it was asked. The tone of the questions and subsequent responses was reminicent of a now thankfully defunct music message board. We're not here to pull each other apart, surely....are we?

S-B-H

[Edisone]

I question only the use of this particular name, as I feel it doesn't honor Edison. Meaning: Edison was (or he felt he was) cheated by his best friend, Jesse Lippincott was ruined, and the whole mess was a financial disaster for most involved. Edison finally regained control by forcing N.A. into bankruptcy, giving himself a "black eye" in the financial world.

I'm not a self-appointed arbiter of proper business names; I'm only saying that I'd have chosen something other than North American - but that's my problem, not Shawn Borri's. It would be unfortunate if anything written here discouraged him from continuing his manufacture of blanks.

I wonder if "Edisonic" is available... The New Edisonic ... Edisonia (or was that a cigar?) ... Almost anything we think up has probably already been used, or somebody will find a reason to object. (Now I'm thinking of RCA Victor's attempt to claim the color red as its own. Even the American courts couldn't swallow that one! )

[phonogfp]

Personally, I liked Shawn's original name of the "New North American Phonograph Company."

The current name, in addition to the potential confusion it offers to researchers, makes it possible for others to someday post an eBay listing such as this:

For Sale: 7 genuine North American Phonograph Company records with recordings by Issler's Orchestra. Each in excellent condition. Been in my collection for years - - time for someone else to enjoy them. $1000 each, or $6000 for the lot.

The unwary buyer pays his money, but after he receives his records, discovers them to be less than a dozen years old. He has no recourse, since every word in the ad was true.

Other folks making new cylinder records have chosen names such as Wizard or Vulcan. This, along with the markings on the cylinders themselves, prevents a variety of problems for future collectors.

I wish Shawn continued success with his worthwhile endeavor. I would also encourage him to consider a revised name for his operation, and perhaps the inclusion of his initials or other identifying mark on the inside surface of his excellent cylinder blanks.

George P.

[Amberola 1-A]

I have examples of both Shawn's earlier brown wax and later white wax cylinders, and although they function well and look good, they don't have the finished look of original cylinders. I would suspect that a person shelling out 1-6 thousand for records would know the difference if good pictures were posted in the listing and if they bought w/o pictures, then the shame is upon them.
I haven't seen any of Paul Baker's cylinders. Does he somehow mark them to prevent confusion?

Bill

[Valecnik]

I have examples of both Shawn's earlier brown wax and later white wax cylinders, and although they function well and look good, they don't have the finished look of original cylinders. I would suspect that a person shelling out 1-6 thousand for records would know the difference if good pictures were posted in the listing and if they bought w/o pictures, then the shame is upon them.
I haven't seen any of Paul Baker's cylinders. Does he somehow mark them to prevent confusion?

Bill

I did not know PB was also making cylinders? Could you elaborate?

Years ago when he made those excellent C, K, & H reproducers he had his initials, "PB" stamped at either the beginning or the end of the SN as I recall. Otherwise they could easily be mistaken for very clean originals.