The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

jamiegramo wrote: Fri Nov 08, 2024 6:40 am The Columbia is a low estimate yet the Amberola (A) 1 is estimated at £2000-£3000. Someone is doing intermittent homework.

The Columbia horn gram is not from the same estate as the two Edison machines and my guess is that BHL's own cataloguer did the valuation and catalogue description ( rather naively as often the case ) for that, whereas I strongly suspect the descriptions and price estimates for the Edison machines , discs and cylinders was done by A.N. Other -- someone many of us know well , as the specific wording and price levels have his mark on them . Dulcetto

Dulcetto wrote: Fri Nov 08, 2024 3:31 pm

jamiegramo wrote: Fri Nov 08, 2024 6:40 am The Columbia is a low estimate yet the Amberola (A) 1 is estimated at £2000-£3000. Someone is doing intermittent homework.

The Columbia horn gram is not from the same estate as the two Edison machines and my guess is that BHL's own cataloguer did the valuation and catalogue description ( rather naively as often the case ) for that, whereas I strongly suspect the descriptions and price estimates for the Edison machines , discs and cylinders was done by A.N. Other -- someone many of us know well , as the specific wording and price levels have his mark on them . Dulcetto

They do indeed! I noticed that.

Quite right - pity Bearne's didn't think to ask me about the Columbia and the Deccalian. It is indeed lacking the lower part as well as the original motor (is that the original motor board lurking in the bottom of the cabinet?). Perhaps drinks cabinet is the answer -- it is related the Wine Cooler, after all...

Yes, the Diamond Discs and 78s are predominantly jazz and dance, and there are also a large number of Indestructible cylinders, though I didn't have a chance to study their content.

A.N.Other

Oedipus wrote: Sat Nov 09, 2024 11:48 am Quite right - pity Bearne's didn't think to ask me about the Columbia and the Deccalian. It is indeed lacking the lower part as well as the original motor (is that the original motor board lurking in the bottom of the cabinet?). Perhaps drinks cabinet is the answer -- it is related the Wine Cooler, after all...

Yes, the Diamond Discs and 78s are predominantly jazz and dance, and there are also a large number of Indestructible cylinders, though I didn't have a chance to study their content.

A.N.Other

In which case Roger simply MUST buy the Deccalian!

Steve wrote: Mon Nov 11, 2024 10:48 am In which case Roger simply MUST buy the Deccalian!

Much as I would like to see the Deccalian restored, my woodworking skills are almost non-existent. Extending the legs and re-creating the undertray would be a project too far for me, to say nothing of sourcing the correct mechanical components.

I was looking at it, I'd be quite capable of repairing the legs, I remade my HMV 511 legs some years ago, but its a fair distance from me

Well worth the £10 of anyone's money that it sold for today.

Did anyone else miss the absolutely mint red Columbia 9000 that sold today? £50, if you're interested. I'm still kicking myself!

Steve wrote: Tue Nov 19, 2024 2:54 pm Well worth the £10 of anyone's money that it sold for today.

Did anyone else miss the absolutely mint red Columbia 9000 that sold today? £50, if you're interested. I'm still kicking myself!

Hammer prices in many instances are falling , as has been noticed particularly in the last year or so. Not just gramophones and phonographs either. Large upright Polyphon music boxes , models with 50 cms discs, a few years ago at least £5K price level, sometimes selling for much more , have fallen dramatically in the last two to three years , I have seen several sell for under 1000 , in one sale one sold for just £250 ! Mind you , high buyer's premiums at auction houses must have at least some effect on hammer prices. 37 percent at BHL for instance , if bidding through online platform The Saleroom. Ridiculous ! Back to hammer prices , two Edison Gem phonographs in one lot but minus their reproducers and horns ,sold this week achieved only £70. Its a buyer's paradise at the moment , trouble is if you're wanting to sell , there isn't so many buyers for our stuff as there used to be !! Dulcetto

I agree that the monstrous auction fees which are now the norm are a major disincentive to potential buyers, but the general economic uncertainty in the UK is also contributing to the falling market.
In my other hobby of classic cars, a highly respected motoring journalist has suggested that people buy when they feel confident and solvent. If the reports of a cost of living crisis are to be believed, many people do not feel confident or solvent.

Dulcetto wrote: Wed Nov 20, 2024 3:19 am

Steve wrote: Tue Nov 19, 2024 2:54 pm Well worth the £10 of anyone's money that it sold for today.

Did anyone else miss the absolutely mint red Columbia 9000 that sold today? £50, if you're interested. I'm still kicking myself!

Hammer prices in many instances are falling , as has been noticed particularly in the last year or so. Not just gramophones and phonographs either. Large upright Polyphon music boxes , models with 50 cms discs, a few years ago at least £5K price level, sometimes selling for much more , have fallen dramatically in the last two to three years , I have seen several sell for under 1000 , in one sale one sold for just £250 ! Mind you , high buyer's premiums at auction houses must have at least some effect on hammer prices. 37 percent at BHL for instance , if bidding through online platform The Saleroom. Ridiculous ! Back to hammer prices , two Edison Gem phonographs in one lot but minus their reproducers and horns ,sold this week achieved only £70. Its a buyer's paradise at the moment , trouble is if you're wanting to sell , there isn't so many buyers for our stuff as there used to be !! Dulcetto

The demand is not what it once was, clearly. The Japanese and Korean market has cooled considerably and it was usually these buyers who determined what the prices were here for the better stuff and not the long-term British collectors who tended to sit back and balk at the prices achieved. I started collecting at the wrong time but this has never been about money or "investment" for me, only the fun and enjoyment of owning the wonderful machines. The international market is flat-lining too and buyers are less able / willing to import / export machines these days. None of this helps.

But for me the biggest obstacles are currently time and distance. Every machine I'm potentially interested in is usually at auction over 3 hours drive away and I work full-time so it's not feasible to view anything. Auction houses are really the least user-friendly places to buy from now, post-covid and not just because of the premiums charged (after all we adjust our bids accordingly) but due to poor photos, poor descriptions, no liability accepted or come-back allowed etc and limited opening hours. Ebay scores a home run for me these days but the prices are usually two to three times that achieved at auction which isn't great when you're a buyer!