The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

If some of you don't care for these, that's one thing. However, is it necessary to be rude?

I wouldn't refuse either one - original or not.

And that Janis Joplin Porsche sold for A LOT of money - whether it is your cup of tea or not.

https://money.cnn.com/2015/12/10/luxury ... index.html

JerryVan wrote: Mon Dec 02, 2024 7:41 pm If some of you don't care for these, that's one thing. However, is it necessary to be rude?

A lot can be elaborated upon (and appreciated) about your comment, Jerry. But I won't get into that here, this is a phonograph forum, and my only reason for making the post in the first place was to reach those upon whose face would smile. Of course, the cranky-pusses among us just had to say something.

When Dom brought the gold Opera to Union, and it's presence was proudly announced at the opening by Mike Donley, I was at a booth a feet feet away. At no time during the show do I recall anybody having the nerve to challenge Dom on his work of art. But now the internet makes bullies of the least of us.

I celebrate Dom's enthusiasm for the hobby, as well as the many other aspects of his life. RIP, Dom.

Raphael

There’s no accounting for taste. It was his stuff, and he could do whatever he wanted with it. Just like Janice, after migrating from Texas to make it big in the Golden State, did with her Porsche.

Florida man, California girl. Two very well-known genres.

I’m glad to not be one of those “cranky-pusses” though. When I saw the two alternative operas (count ‘em, two!), I definitely smiled. Then I laughed out loud.

Woulda done the same in front of Donley and the late Dom, had I been there - and depending upon what Dom was trying to accomplish by doing this to the phonographs, hopefully he would have appreciated that. I hope that some veil of manners didn’t create an “emperor’s new clothes” situation in that moment, but who knows. Again, it was his stuff, and his choice.

Might be interesting to see what future generations will do with them, like assuming they are rare factory special-order units and assigning higher value to them at one extreme, or lumping them with frankenphones at the other. I think Janice’s Porsche has value because of who owned and customized it, not as an improvement on the original item.

A few years back I visited a collector who had a nickel-plated Gem. George (or any of the rest of you), was that a factory option, or another owner “custom job”? It was cool, but also another head-scratcher.

Well! I lift up my finger and I say "Tweet-Tweet."

Lighten up, Francis... wait, what's the plural of Francis? Where's Fran when you need him?
Look, light-o-matic's post about Janis' Porsche sort of emphasizes the tongue- in cheek point I was trying to make... Customs are ALMOST always a hard sell. Without the provenance, there's a decent chance that her 356 Cabrio might have been sold at the going price of any other one and stripped and repainted back to stock per the COA. Or maybe not, if the buyer really dug the vibe.

Same with Foose. His stuff does not speak to me... in fact, most of what he does with cars just screams "BECAUSE I CAN!" and nothing else... in my opinion. But the guy had a popular show and some out there are willing to pay a lot for his creations. That said, I doubt Jerry Van would let Foose within 150 miles of his Model T.

Actually, I don't dislike those two Operas- not at all. I'm just not sure I like them yet. But Dom re-created them to his vision, and Rafael bought them, and he's obviously very pleased with them, and that's what matters. Does that mean a little humor is off the table? Remember the first guy or gal in your kid's group that paired off with his/her first crush? It was like a duty for the rest of us to give them crap over it but nothing nefarious was meant, and neither did it change the mind of the person in question about anything.

Besides, in this current climate where "every accusation is an admission", I, as the guy who owns a "HotRod Foose" 10-50 in a beautiful 9-55 cabinet along with a formerly woodworm eaten HMV 32 now all dressed up in Burled Walnut veneer left over from a Mercedes interior restoration, should have a perfect God given, Supreme Court anointed right to boink anyone else over for doing the same thing, only maybe better. (Now if these had only belonged to Janis Joplin, or actually been done by Chip Foose...)

So... in conclusion, lighten up, Francises. And Kumbaya.

I’m surely an originalist but still love them. I like the gold one best, but the nickel is also elegant. Wasn’t there a gold plated Opera in the latest edition of the Frow book? I seem to recall seeing one there and thinking it looked so cool.

Both machines look very nice, especially due to the excellent plating work. The golden one would be a good companion to a Vernis Martin Victrola. A curiosity question to Raphael: were the spring barrels also plated? And do the machines function well?

CarlosV wrote: Tue Dec 03, 2024 7:01 am Both machines look very nice, especially due to the excellent plating work. The golden one would be a good companion to a Vernis Martin Victrola. A curiosity question to Raphael: were the spring barrels also plated? And do the machines function well?

The plating, superb as it is, was a function of the fantastic surface preparation, but did not extend to the spring barrels. I guess there are limits to even what Dom could do!

Yes, they play well, as Operas should. I still haven’t found a proper place for them in my home, with the Christmas tree and decorations having taken the only remaining space for now. But come January, they will move from the music room out to the main part of the house, where another acquisition from Dom about 7 years ago resides, my Nicole Frères forte-piano Grand Format Overture music box.

Raphael

PeterF wrote: Mon Dec 02, 2024 10:03 pm There’s no accounting for taste. It was his stuff, and he could do whatever he wanted with it. Just like Janice, after migrating from Texas to make it big in the Golden State, did with her Porsche.


A few years back I visited a collector who had a nickel-plated Gem. George (or any of the rest of you), was that a factory option, or another owner “custom job”? It was cool, but also another head-scratcher.

I see this often "its is/hers, they can do what they want with it". That's fine in cases with a common machine. These days Operas are a common machine, there is always one for sale. But if it is a rare and historically important machine, we as collectors have a responsibility to preserve these machines for future generations. If you think restoring a treadle Bell & Tainter (yes there are people who have! - money does not buy taste or sophistication) or an Edison tinfoil, or even a Class M is necessary because it no longer looks new, you are the wrong home for it and will destroy the machine's historical integrity forever. Such actions can not be undone. Your interest in something being flashy becomes a detriment to the future of the study of this subject/object(s). Sell the machine to a collector who has an understanding of historical artifacts before you butcher its historic integrity. The museum/academic world often has a bad view of collectors, and actions like stated prior are part of the reason why. Museums have their own share of issues with access, knowledge, etc. We can all do better. For common machines, there are plenty in original condition for future generations to study, do as you wish. For historic pieces, don't be a hack!

As for a nickel plated gem, I am not aware that this was an option, certainly not a nickel plated metal "cabinet". But it's just a Gem, go ahead and do whatever you wish. Sometime a flashy party trick is fun.

cmshapiro wrote: Tue Dec 03, 2024 5:41 pm

PeterF wrote: Mon Dec 02, 2024 10:03 pm There’s no accounting for taste. It was his stuff, and he could do whatever he wanted with it. Just like Janice, after migrating from Texas to make it big in the Golden State, did with her Porsche.


A few years back I visited a collector who had a nickel-plated Gem. George (or any of the rest of you), was that a factory option, or another owner “custom job”? It was cool, but also another head-scratcher.

I see this often "its is/hers, they can do what they want with it". That's fine in cases with a common machine. These days Operas are a common machine, there is always one for sale. But if it is a rare and historically important machine, we as collectors have a responsibility to preserve these machines for future generations. If you think restoring a treadle Bell & Tainter (yes there are people who have! - money does not buy taste or sophistication) or an Edison tinfoil, or even a Class M is necessary because it no longer looks new, you are the wrong home for it and will destroy the machine's historical integrity forever. Such actions can not be undone. Your interest in something being flashy becomes a detriment to the future of the study of this subject/object(s). Sell the machine to a collector who has an understanding of historical artifacts before you butcher its historic integrity. The museum/academic world often has a bad view of collectors, and actions like stated prior are part of the reason why. Museums have their own share of issues with access, knowledge, etc. We can all do better. For common machines, there are plenty in original condition for future generations to study, do as you wish. For historic pieces, don't be a hack!

As for a nickel plated gem, I am not aware that this was an option, certainly not a nickel plated metal "cabinet". But it's just a Gem, go ahead and do whatever you wish. Sometime a flashy party trick is fun.

Yeah, but I'm going to respectfully disagree here. Go to museums and you won't see any peeling plating, missing paint, rust, "patina" or alligatored/ disintegrating finishes.

Are you preserving "originality", or are you merely preserving the neglect and ravages of time the piece has endured? To me, the key is YES, go ahead and restore it, but only after very careful research into what finishes, etc. were used at the time and how they were applied. Do it... but do it right.

We go through the same silly arguments in the classic car communities... "BUT IT'S ALL ORIGINAL PAINT!!!" Really? The original paint on this Mercedes was dull with primer showing through all over? Somehow, I don't think so.

What people don't realize about finishes is that the eye pleasing part of them is a secondary function, with the primary function being the preservation of what's under the finish. Do you wish to preserve history, or just allow it to continue crumbling to dust?