Victrola Orthophonic Credenza Phonograph or Gramophone

[larryh]

Its interesting that both incorporate the same "phone or phono" in the titles. What does the rest of the name then represent? "Graph, or Gram" I guess its perhaps apparent to many, but having not given it much thought previously it makes me wonder?

[FloridaClay]

I'm told the origin of phonograph is from the Greek phono- "sound" + -graphos "writing, writer." Thus a phonograph is a sound writer. Gramophone is the same thing with the underlying words reversed, or writer of sound. Columbia’s variant was Graphophone. I think I remember reading that the variants came up in the early days when there were constant legal battles going on between the various talking machine companies to try to avoid patent and trademark infringement suits. Perhaps another forum member may have something on that.

[Starkton]

Here is an extract from a letter of Alexander Graham Bell, of 1881: I would look upon Edison's instrument as a ‘Phonograph’ only while it is being operated by the voice of a speaker – and would call it a ‘Graphophone’ while reproducing the sound from the record.

The Volta Association finally settled on "Graphophone" for their own device.

As an interesting note: In June 1888, after the North American Phonograph Company had bought the exclusive marketing rights, Charles Sumner Tainter suggested to call his new talking machine "Tainter Phonograph", but Edison had already proposed "Phonograph-Graphophone" and this bulky term became the trade name. Later, the American Graphophone Company shortened it to "Graphophone".

[syncopeter]

I think it is an academic discussion. In the USA people then to use the word phonograph for both cylinder and flat record players, where we stubborn Europeans use both terms. Phonograph for cylinder players and gramophone for flat disc players. To make things even more confusing Dutch and Flemmings tend to call anything with a horn a 'Pattefoon', even nowadays, because Pathé machines were so popular in the low countries a century ago. So, yes, it is the old potato/potahto discussion. Manufacterors carefully steered clear of these issues, never mentioning the actual word in their advertisements, instead using carefully worded euphemisms describing the unique qualities of their machines.

[Guest]

[quote="syncopeter"]I think it is an academic discussion. In the USA people then to use the word phonograph for both cylinder and flat record players, where we stubborn Europeans use both terms. Phonograph for cylinder players and gramophone for flat disc players. To make things even more confusing Dutch and Flemmings tend to call anything with a horn a 'Pattefoon', even nowadays, because Path?? machines were so popular in the low countries a century ago. So, yes, it is the old potato/potahto discussion. Manufacterors carefully steered clear of these issues, never mentioning the actual word in their advertisements, instead using carefully worded euphemisms describing the unique qualities of their machines.[/quote]

Very good answer Peter, you worded your opinion very nicely

James

[James]

I think it is an academic discussion. In the USA people then to use the word phonograph for both cylinder and flat record players, where we stubborn Europeans use both terms. Phonograph for cylinder players and gramophone for flat disc players. To make things even more confusing Dutch and Flemmings tend to call anything with a horn a 'Pattefoon', even nowadays, because Pathé machines were so popular in the low countries a century ago. So, yes, it is the old potato/potahto discussion. Manufacterors carefully steered clear of these issues, never mentioning the actual word in their advertisements, instead using carefully worded euphemisms describing the unique qualities of their machines.

Hi Peter,

Good answer, your opinion is worded very well

James

[hillndalefan]

I've been fascinated by this discussion for years, and thought the British way of differentiation was quite sensible. Edison did refer to his hill-and-dale disc machines as Edison Disc Phonographs. When I was growing up in the 1950s and '60s, old-timers refered to any sound reproducing machine as a Victrola where I lived. My family just called them record players, or phonographs [or radio-phonographs].

[gramophoneshane]

thought the British way of differentiation was quite sensible.

Edison & Berliner were not British to my knowledge, & it was them afterall who made the differentiation. And it's not just the British who use the correct terminology either. I think all other English speaking countries like Austalia, New Zealand, & Canada use both terms, and even non-engish speaking countries like Germany say (I think)fonograf, grammophon, & plattenspieler for phonograph, gramophone and record player.
I'm certainly no language expert, but it seems to me that USA is one of the very few places on the planet that uses the broad term phonograph to discribe all 3 sound reproduction devices.