The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

ChesterCheetah18 wrote: Thu Nov 27, 2025 2:09 am I wondered what that was for also. I wish I had an answer, but the flag holder idea works just fine. The machine itself is very similar to the VV 1-1 or “Victrolita”, which took the place of the VV-IV in the U.S. catalog with the introduction of the Orthophonic machines.
I didn’t think to look at the auction. Is the bottom open?

Steve

Yes. The bottom is open. You only see the wooden horn.

Canuk Phonographs wrote: Sun Nov 30, 2025 8:02 pm

ChesterCheetah18 wrote: Thu Nov 27, 2025 2:09 am I wondered what that was for also. I wish I had an answer, but the flag holder idea works just fine. The machine itself is very similar to the VV 1-1 or “Victrolita”, which took the place of the VV-IV in the U.S. catalog with the introduction of the Orthophonic machines.
I didn’t think to look at the auction. Is the bottom open?

Steve

Yes. The bottom is open. You only see the wooden horn.

Just like the 1-1. Thanks.

Steve

I wonder of it was a later add on for the pivot for a later electric tonearm? From the late 20's there various accessories to add a magnetic or crystal pickup and tonearm. The electric pickup could then be connected to the home radio receiver.

Governor Flyball wrote: Sun Nov 30, 2025 11:21 pm I wonder of it was a later add on for the pivot for a later electric tonearm? From the late 20's there various accessories to add a magnetic or crystal pickup and tonearm. The electric pickup could then be connected to the home radio receiver.

That's a great theory! I'm betting that's what it is.

Per the Victor/Victrola database, Victrola IV models sold in Canada up to about 1920 use the same US "VV-IV" dataplate, with an added Berliner tag. Around 1920, a "VV-III" model designator was used for these machines, with the addition of "C" to the serial number (assumedly indicating for Canadian export). In early 1925, the "V-III" designation was used for the "VV 1-1" US models, again with an added "C".
This is solely based on observational and submitted data, as no production records have survived for export models. It would seem that the "IV" models, as well as the "1-1" models sold in Canada were produced in Camden (there are no physical differences as far as I can tell), but it is conceivable that the Montreal plant was making these cabinets. However, given that Victor in the US jobbed the the "IV" cabinet construction to outside suppliers, it would seem to make more economic sense to produce them in volume from one supplier and ship where needed. Montreal may very well have installed the motors and hardware into the empty cabinets destined for sale in Canada.

The only real difference I can see between the VV-III and the VV 1-1 is the tone arm/support configuration. All VV1-1 models were fitted with a one piece tone arm and Exhibition soundbox.
In the U.S. Victor also marketed the VV 1-2, basically a 1-1 painted in white enamel and decorated with “Bubble Book” transfer decals and marketed as a children’s machine. I wonder if such a machine was also sold in Canada?

Steve

I've always been fascinated by the use of the older horn decal on the back of the US version. Using up old stock?

Also seen on the US version...
The very first thing I noticed about Blain's Canadian example, (before I realized it was Canadian), were that these decals were not present. What I find odd in both examples, is the strange placement in both the US decals and the Canadian nameplate. Why stuff either one of those things on the back side?

JerryVan wrote: Wed Dec 10, 2025 1:34 pm I've always been fascinated by the use of the older horn decal on the back of the US version. Using up old stock?

Also seen on the US version...

decal.png

The very first thing I noticed about Blain's Canadian example, (before I realized it was Canadian), were that these decals were not present. What I find odd in both examples, is the strange placement in both the US decals and the Canadian nameplate. Why stuff either one of those things on the back side?

Using up old stock was my assumption. I thought the same was true of the tone arm support, but the VV-III doesn’t appear to be the same as the VV-IV, at least the five examples of VV-IV that I own. It’s difficult to see, but mine has the blue background wood horn version. I wasn’t aware there were others used. Very interesting. Yes it is odd either would be on the back of the machine, however, if I remember right the Type B 1-1 did have a data plate on the crank side of the case.

Steve