O/T thoughts on the forum design

[Marco Gilardetti]

As administrator of another forum with a slightly bigger number of subscribers than this one, I will humbly drop my two cents in the remote case someone is interested in my opinion.

First of all, moderation on a discussion group is FUNDAMENTAL. If administrators are busy in other tasks or with their families, as sometimes happens, they can elect a group of moderators of their choice (no need to be democratic here) among knowledgeable and reputable subscribers of the board. Bomb-discussions are always behind the door and shall be prevented. I, together with most probably all others, was a long-time subscriber of a previous discussion board on phonographs, which I will not mention but of which we all know the story, that ended up split in two. The fact that there is still no "official" comment on these user's requests speaks for itself as an evidence of lack of moderation at present time.

About the design, my direct experience tells me that discussion cathegories should neither be too many and classified - because they tend to get dead and boring on one side, and because some topics won't fit anywhere on the other - neither be too generic, because they obviusly tend to get messy and relevant topics tend to slip down fast, leaving the board crowded with off-topic or chat-style threads. IN MEDIO STAT VIRTUS, as usual.

If I was asked to give a suggestion, which obviously didn't happen but here we go nonetheless, I would warmly recommend to split the "machines" section AT LEAST in two: that is gramophones (discs) and phonographs (cylinders). I would also try to open up a section devoted to needles, needles' tins and such, as there is a very active world of collectors of these items. On the other side, I would reconsider the "Archive" section either closing it or reviving it with scheduled new articles and monographies. Finally, I would open a "off-topic" section for the subscribers who like to chat with other fellows about non-phonograph subjects: this decreases the amount of off-topic or hijakced threads on relevant cathegories significantly.

As a final note, please let me remember how approximately ten years ago I wrote a circular letter to a long list of reputable repairmen, collectors, historians, technicians of phonographs etc. proposing them to open up a discussion board (as I happened to have the know-how to do so) of which they were going to be moderators of the respective specific sections. The (very) few who bothered to answer said they were not interested, had no time, was useless, or that it was a stupid idea altogether. It's funny to see how forums on phonographs have grown and multiplied later.

[gramophoneshane]

Wow
There must be something in the water down under.

No, but perhaps there's something in your water that makes you find threads that simply say "look, there's a cheap Crudendza on craigslist in New York" humorous?
THESE are the threads I'm refering to, not threads like the VV-50 thread that question the price achieved, or like the Silvertone thread that question a machines authenticity.
These are legitimate discussions about a particular machine & I see no problem posting them in the main forum.
Threads like "Early XIV for sale" however are nothing but ads for an item for sale, and belong in the yankee trader section.
And threads like your jar of used needles are really just a waste of space.

[Brad]

This discussion comes up every year or so and the consensus has always been to leave it as is, which I agree with. I think this forum operates very well and any issues that arrive are dealt with quickly. Marco brings up that too much fragmentation leads to low traffic/dead forums - very true. With a dozen or so active topics/posts a day, it is very easy to browse it all in one forum.

We should leave it as is, it works.

[estott]

As administrator of another forum with a slightly bigger number of subscribers than this one, I will humbly drop my two cents in the remote case someone is interested in my opinion.

First of all, moderation on a discussion group is FUNDAMENTAL. If administrators are busy in other tasks or with their families, as sometimes happens, they can elect a group of moderators of their choice (no need to be democratic here) among knowledgeable and reputable subscribers of the board. Bomb-discussions are always behind the door and shall be prevented. I, together with most probably all others, was a long-time subscriber of a previous discussion board on phonographs, which I will not mention but of which we all know the story, that ended up split in two. The fact that there is still no "official" comment on these user's requests speaks for itself as an evidence of lack of moderation at present time.

About the design, my direct experience tells me that discussion cathegories should neither be too many and classified - because they tend to get dead and boring on one side, and because some topics won't fit anywhere on the other - neither be too generic, because they obviusly tend to get messy and relevant topics tend to slip down fast, leaving the board crowded with off-topic or chat-style threads. IN MEDIO STAT VIRTUS, as usual.

If I was asked to give a suggestion, which obviously didn't happen but here we go nonetheless, I would warmly recommend to split the "machines" section AT LEAST in two: that is gramophones (discs) and phonographs (cylinders). I would also try to open up a section devoted to needles, needles' tins and such, as there is a very active world of collectors of these items. On the other side, I would reconsider the "Archive" section either closing it or reviving it with scheduled new articles and monographies. Finally, I would open a "off-topic" section for the subscribers who like to chat with other fellows about non-phonograph subjects: this decreases the amount of off-topic or hijakced threads on relevant cathegories significantly.

As a final note, please let me remember how approximately ten years ago I wrote a circular letter to a long list of reputable repairmen, collectors, historians, technicians of phonographs etc. proposing them to open up a discussion board (as I happened to have the know-how to do so) of which they were going to be moderators of the respective specific sections. The (very) few who bothered to answer said they were not interested, had no time, was useless, or that it was a stupid idea altogether. It's funny to see how forums on phonographs have grown and multiplied later.

This forum doesn't need a section for needle tins- this is a largely American forum and needle tins were never the big thing here as they were in the UK and Europe. A general Accessories section for such things as tins, sharpeners, dusters, would be good though.

As to dividing the machines section into Cylinder and Disc sections, I like to just open the Machine section and see what's new, no matter what it concerns. If we keep subdividing we'll end up like the UK forum with little pigeonholes for everything under American, UK, French, Cylinder, Disc, Etc. Etc. It's very commendable but the fun is lessened- at least in my non-expert opinion. Are we here to chat or maintain an encyclopedia?

[1923VictorFan]

Like I said...
This thread sure turned ugly fast.
I stand by my previous comment that was neither rude nor insulting.

"It's the humor on this website that actually breathes life into it and makes it different from all of the other cold, dead, impersonal websites where no one responds to anything and the last entry is two years old and involved 2 old men in Florida debating the pit falls of using after market screws." Mea culpa

[brianu]

... or maybe just have a more organized, categorized archives section, and move everything from the more active, general machines sections into the compartmentalized places in the archives after a month or three months or some other regular interval.

or just do nothing. whatever complaints - justified or not - one might have with this forum, the source of those complaints couldn't possibly compare to those situations that have shut down similar forums in the past, or an abundance of threads and posts I've seen on a couple of other forums along the lines of... where is everybody? where is everyone? crickets?, etc... because those sites aren't a fraction as active as this one.

[phonophan79]

I have to agree with the sentiments that too much categorization and sub-forums is a bad thing. People are lazy, myself included... so simplicity is best. One main section. Even on this forum, we can see the few divisions we have are not as active as this main category.

I will strongly disagree with adding an "off-topic" subforum category... as many of us witnessed the death of the original and highly active Old Time Victrola Music Message Board due to personal attacks, politics and bickering.

It's been a subject of debate over the years about posting eBay and Craigslist items. eBay and Craigslist are a great way to find machines "in the wild". There can be unusual / off-brand / rare / scarce / etc. etc. / machines and accessories to be found online... so I think they should be discussed on the board. I personally will not post an eBay item until after bidding has ended. If i'm watching an item... I don't want to draw attention to it. With Craigslist... since it's not in auction format, it's all fair game. (again... all my personal opinion)

It's very disappointing overall because this forum could be so much more. The Archive section and the Featured Phonograph section could be a treasure trove of information for the hobby. I'm 31 years old now... the majority of everything I learned, I learned from you all in this community. I haven't been active in the forum recently because I still have a bitter taste in my mouth. I volunteered to maintain the Archives and Featured phonographs section but I was told to please stop asking and to please stop pursuing the issue... so I have.

On the other hand... i'm grateful the forum exists. I'm thankful someone is paying for the annual fees and charges of keeping it running. I'm thankful its free. And I'm thankful that we're no-longer on ProBoards where where we have to worry about all the valuable forum information being pulled at the drop of a complaint.

[phonogfp]

I agree with phonophan79. This forum isn't perfect, but then again - neither are we. It's certainly workable, especially with the search function (which newcomers rarely use!). Ultimately, trying to structure the TMF in response to the "least talented" would probably ruin it for the majority.

I used to coordinate and write policy & procedure for a state agency. Sometimes, people would want to bloat a policy by including every possible variable (which really isn't possible), and how staff should react to these myriad situations. You wind up with very lengthy policies that nobody reads - and all because some administrators couldn't trust general policies/guidelines, training, and experience to teach staff how to think. Too many "rules" tend to muck up everything. And there are always those who won't follow them anyway...

We'll always have forum users who don't adhere to common-sense protocols, but I like to think of that as a small price to pay for "doing business." I enjoy this forum just as it is. Sure, it might be made better, but I still enjoy it just as it is.

George P.

[bbphonoguy]

This whole discussion seems much like a tempest in a teapot. We're members of a board who share a common interest in an outdated technology. It's not a religion or some matter of international importance, when it comes down to it, it's of no real importance at all. It's supposed to be a hobby, not a guide for life. Why can't we just leave the board alone, and not keep revisiting this issue on a semi-regular basis?

If there's enough folks out there who don't like this board, then join another one somewhere, or start one of your own. Just appreciate this one for what it is, a board that most likely has that broadest appeal for phono collectors because it's a mixed up grab bag.

[Swing Band Heaven]

Well put. And if there were a **like** button next to posts then I would of clicked it for that one

S-B-H