Bottom Cabinet Locked on XV XIV - What Now?

[JohnM]

WD-40 is a terrible lubricant. It was designed to displace water (IOW, it is a rustproofer). It is an extremely light oil in a volatile carrier that will gum things up more than clean or lubricate them. Use a real penetrating lubricant such as Kroil or Liquid Wrench.

[Brad]

@sgwilson - I went and looked at my victor machines and the only one that has lower doors that lock is my VE-XVIII. The lock mechanism is located between the tone doors and the record storage doors. I admit I am not sure the configuration on the XIV (my XVI does not have a door lock). I took a picture of the door lock for my XVIII and it is below. If this is the configuration you have, than you may have more luck than trying to get to the spring loaded ears. One idea would be to remove the platter and reproducer, and all those loose needles and lay the machine on it's back. You could then introduce a solvent/lubricant into the lock mechanism in greater quantity and without worry of it running down the front and damaging the finish.

@JohnM - Hey John, I always get a kick when someone suggests using WD40 for something that is stuck or squeeky and someone always chimes in with the "WD40 is not a ..." comment. Thanks for maintaining my faith in the perpetuality of the "great WD40 debate" WD40 isn't even a lubricant, but it is a nice light solvent with low viscosity that will quickly penatrate into those nooks and crannies. It is very effective at losening dust, rust, crud, etc, and then evaporating. Once you have loosened whatever it is needs loosening, other lubricants can be used if needed. As terrible as everyone says WD40 is, it is quite a useful tool to have at your disposal.

[sgwilson904]

Thank you, Brad!

By sliding a very thin blade in the space between the top of the locked doors and the frame, I have ascertained that what Brad pictured must be the same configuration as the VV VIV model I have. As I slide the blade across the top, I can feel those two bars than extend downward into the doors to hold them locked.

My problem remains that I do not believe the lock is repairable, as it just turns one-quarter turn to the right and stops hard, then it will turn freely more than three-quarters of a turn to the left without any resistence at all. I don't think any amount of any magic liquid is going to resolve this. Do all agree, if true, this leaves me with no alternative but to try to remove the hinges, then pull the doors slightly out and down to remove them?

SOME GOOD NEWS: I removed one of the doors which cover the slots where the sounds comes out, doors that have no lock. These doors have the exact same type of hinges that hold the bottom, locked doors (as pictured on the original post). Using two pliers, I grabbed both the top "globe cap" and the bottom one and twisted and pulled...and voila! The top one came off. There were no threads on the pin as some suspected. Apparently it just fits snugly on the top.

With the top cap removed, using a thin nail I was able to tap the pin downward and could have then remove the pin, but didn't proceed with that entire process after seeing it would work.

So...what is the consensus here now? Use this method to remove the pins from the hinges on one (or both?) sides of the record storage cabinet doors and then try to pull the doors out and down to remove them.?

And if all agree this is the best method to try...where in the world am I going to find another cabinet lock (different from the lid lock I sometimes see on e-Bay) to replace the one if it is not repairable?

You guys are great! Please keep your thoughts coming. We're getting there!

[Henry]

By sliding a very thin blade in the space between the top of the locked doors and the frame, I have ascertained that what Brad pictured must be the same configuration as the VV VIV model I have. As I slide the blade across the top, I can feel those two bars than extend downward into the doors to hold them locked.

My problem remains that I do not believe the lock is repairable, as it just turns one-quarter turn to the right and stops hard, then it will turn freely more than three-quarters of a turn to the left without any resistence at all. I don't think any amount of any magic liquid is going to resolve this. Do all agree, if true, this leaves me with no alternative but to try to remove the hinges, then pull the doors slightly out and down to remove them?

...where in the world am I going to find another cabinet lock (different from the lid lock I sometimes see on e-Bay) to replace the one if it is not repairable?

As to that last question, I've heard that George Vollema is THE source for parts. I'd try him at http://www.victroladoctor.com/.

As to the door question, go for it! There may well be enough space between the door and the door frame to tease the one door off its hinges, then the other door should come right off. Remove the lock (after first removing all the secret treasures within!) and see whether it's repairable. If so, you're in business. If not, Vollema.

Good luck, and keep us posted!

[Brad]

Thank you, Brad!

....

My problem remains that I do not believe the lock is repairable, as it just turns one-quarter turn to the right and stops hard, then it will turn freely more than three-quarters of a turn to the left without any resistence at all. I don't think any amount of any magic liquid is going to resolve this. Do all agree, if true, this leaves me with no alternative but to try to remove the hinges, then pull the doors slightly out and down to remove them?

...

On my machine, when the door is locked, the key will turn freely ¾ turn counter clockwise and then stop. Returning back to the starting position, the key will turn ¼ turn clockwise and then engage the bolt mechanism to retract. I have come across many phonograph cabinet locks that appeared to be stuck solid. You should be able to work it loose. Now that you know that the ¼ turn clockwise is the way to go, I would give the solvent/lubrication approach a try and work it with the key. It should break free with a little patience.

If you decide to pull the hinge pins, I would pull all the pins to get things as loose as you can. Keep in mind, that the doors will NOT move down until the hinge knuckles clear each other. This may be next to impossible given the geometries involved. If you must go this way, you may have to force-bend the hinge knuckles out of line to clear each other. Replacement hinges should be very easy to come by for this machine, so if you had to sacrifice something, that would be the item.

Again, in my experience you should be able to free the lock. Good Luck

I wonder what surprises await you inside?????

[phonojim]

I would try the lubrication route first, turning the machine on its back so the solvent will go where you want it. Just be very patient and careful.
BTW: that's why I never lock my machines.

Jim

[gramophoneshane]

I'd also hit the key hole with the nossle of a vacumm cleaner before lubricating it first too.
I've had a few locks that wouldn't budge because they were solidified with hornets nets etc. If you can hear anything being sucked out, then put the key in and jiggle the lock a few times to help break up any muck that's inside & repeat until you cant hear any dirt etc being sucked up anymore, then give it a shot of WD40 or whatever.
It might help, & certainly cant hurt

I'm not sure if these locks used by Victor had the back housing screwed to the lock plate, or if they were pressed shut, but if you cant pull it down once it's out for a good clean, I've found soaking them in warm water for ½ hour & then using the pressure from a hose near the keyhole will often wash out any remaining rubbish inside. Then shake out as much water as possible & either dry it thoroughly with a hairdrier or in a warm oven, to prevent rust forming inside. Once cooled, a light oil or graphite powder squirted inside will normally have them working properly again.

[sgwilson904]

You have have been so gracious and helpful here and I'm happy to report SUCCESS AT LAST! I'd like to share what I did and what I learned in case it can help someone here in the future.

The lubrication method worked just fine for the top lock, the lid lock that was not locked and would not turn in any direction with the key when I started. The WD-40 did the trick and by gently working the key back and forth, I was able to get the lock "ear" to pop up just enough to grab it with pliers and then remove the entire lock mechanism. Then, with it out, I could get plenty of WD-40 inside and thorough clean it to the point it now works just as it should!

Unfortunately, that method would just not work for the bottom lock. After getting WD-40 inside, I worked the key until I felt something snap, then the key only turned freely 360 degrees, catching nothing. At this point, my only choice was to try to remove the locked doors so I could then remove the lock mechanism to clean/repair it or replace it.

Following the advice of some of you, I took a screwdriver and "tapped" the top cap of each of the four hinges, gently and carefully. Ultimately, each popped right off without any damage to the cabinet. As it turns out, the caps are NOT threaded, they just pop on/off. (I presume the bottoms would also pop off too, but I just picked the tops for removal and left the bottoms attached.) Then, with the top cap off, I was able to use a small nail (I didn't have a punch which would have been better) and I tapped the nail onto the hinge pins until they began to slide down/out. When there was enough to grab with a pliers, I grabbed the bottom cop tightly and pulled straight down until each pulled out. In one stubborn case, a little WD on the hinge helped.

Then, with all the pins out of the hinges, it was relatively easy to pull the bottom of the doors outward and down to remove them. With the doors off, I unscrewed the lock and removed the mechanism for thorough cleaning. I have no idea how they SHOULD work and I tried fiddling with the inside but as you see below, everything is on one side of the inside of the lock and when the key is inserted and turned, it catches nothing.

The source someone suggested (George in Michigan) has a replacement lock which I will order and install, re-install the hinges and the doors and VOILA! Now that I'm on a roll, I'm thinking of removing the motor and trying to find a pro who knows how to clean it out and check the spings...something I'm not really equipped to try. Has anybody else done that or, maybe better, can you recommend a pro who can do it for me at resonable cost?

Again thanks to all who helped. You were all terrific and I'm so thankful I found your forum.

[Brad]

Glad you were successful. Most folks never lock their cabinets. If you don't intend on locking yours, you could get away without replacing it since it is not seen. (As a friend of mine always said "Only you and God would know" )

So, what did you find inside?

[sgwilson904]

Unfortunately the inside was not stuffed with cash, nor anything at all. It was awfully clean, though, and the production sticker was attachd to the side wall in pristine condition with a date that reads April 15, 1918.