The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

fmblizz wrote:My buyer who is on active on this site spoke with the supervisor or his local Post Office.

Since I am the one that actually took out and paid for the insurance, I think I have to touch bases with my local branch 1st.

It will be interesting I'm sure.

blizz

before you start contemplating law suits and legal action because you're not properly reimbursed for shipping damage, why don't you first put in an insurance claim and actually try to get reimbursed?

and you wrote... "Then again the Postal Service and spend thousands of buck to send a high paid attorney to court to prove just the opposite." I'm not sure what that means, but if you think government attorneys, the vast majority at least, are "high paid," you're sadly mistaken. and regardless, parties typically represent themselves in small claims court.

I had a electric portable phonograph that was destroyed by the post office last year and I had it insured. The post office paid the claim as the item was damaged not only on one end of the carton but also on the opposite side showing that it was very carelessly handled to say the least.

However I will say that the packing I did on the item while seemingly good, in hind site might have been better. I remember when I first started to sell things now and then on ebay that in the shipping comments section it was often pointed out that when you had an item packed it should be able to withstand falling down a flight of stairs. I pretty much pack to those standards. I had to rather large and yet fragile old items I sent recently that took me nearly four hours each to pack so that I was pretty sure they were not in any danger. One thing I have read about the peanuts is that they can shift in some cases exposing the item to the exterior and easy damage. If I can I use old packing corners I find in furniture store dumpsters or foam thick pieces that are solid to protect the item from the exterior by a couple inches. I have also had good luck using several inch thick boxed filled with stuffed newsprint as exterior buffers but all these things have to fit snugly to hold the shape of the box in tact an not expose the contents to damage. Sometimes I make a cardboard retainer to hold an odd sized item in the center of the box. In a round large item like an oil heater I shipped last week I used some 4 inch thick boxes I cut round holes in both sided and fitted down over the round part of the heater several places including the top which I filled with bubble wrap to prevent the top from getting near the carton end. It takes some time but careful packing pays off in less worry and time consuming claims.

Still I had one carton that all I ever got back was the label part that had my return address. The piece was marked as "machine malfunction".. No refund even of the postage..

Larry

Hi Brian

I did tried to put in an insurance claim but my local Post Office said their hands are tied unless they can see the phonograph and packaging. I fully understand their postion but now that puts me back in the situation that
I will have to shell out another $35.00 to have the buyer send it back to me in hopes that my local Post Office will side with me and honor the claim.

As far as the "Attorney Statement", I was referencing the fact that if I did shell out another $35.00 and get the phonograph back, and the final view of the Post Office is bad packaging on my part, then I would be force into a small claim action against the Postal Service. This would be for not honoring their insurance policy and my point about the Attornies only infers that the Post Office will have to pay someone to actually go to court to dispute my claim and those cost would certainly far outway the cost of the entire claim.

If I did not feel that I packaged this machine properly, I would not go through all this aggrivation. The machine was a Col. AH. The motor was padded inside to case to take up any potential shock. The machine was wrapped in bubble wrap and place in a box with peanuts. Red Fragile sticker were also placed on the box.

Sure I could have double boxed it and went another 9 yards but for a phonograph case made of wood it should not be necessary. It had to have been mishandled. Just putting it into a box with NO padding it should have survived the shipping if handled properly.

to be continued

blizz

Did you pack the machine as well as it was packed when it left the factory? Did you make a wood block to support the motor, to prevent the motorboat from shattering if the carton was dropped or thrown? This was standard practice back in the 'teens and 'twenties, nad should be standard yet today. In the ordinary course of shipping a package may fall as far as six feet, and one's packing should be substantial enough to prevent damage even in this case. Did you use double layer cardboard, or at least double-box? Were any styrofoam peanuts well contained in sealed plastic bags? A doubled plastic bag filled with expanding foam placed in the motor compartment can offer more than enough support to prevent a broken motor board, but a motor left hanging aunsupported is a recipe for disaster.

Two other ideas.

1) Take the package back on a different day and talk to someone else.

2) Go to a different post office, preferably in a smaller town. Small town POs tend to be less bureaucratic than large POs.

You'd be surprised how often this works...

Actually I coated the entire machine inside & out with a liquid high density foam. I then put the entire machine in a trash bag. I then filled a 5 gallon bucket with concrete and put the machine in that so that everything would be encapulated with concrete. I then wrapped the concrete with a couple moving blankets. After that I put everything in a custom made wooden box to insure the blankets don't get ripped.

Whatever you do don't don't don't ever put the word Fragile anywhere on the package as this will insure, make that a guarantee that the handlers will break it.

Think you get my point.

My own letter carrier once said the only reason he has a job is because monkeys can't get a drivers license yet.

This is not 1915 and the machines are no longer shipped via horse & buggy sort of speak over dirt roads.

The PO and other shipping providers are supposes to provide a service of sending things from point A to point B without damage. Thats what they are supposed to do..We already pay alot for this service and User's should not have to buy insurance for loss or damage because this is what the service is all about. We already pay for it.

WTF

too be continued


Blizz

fmblizz wrote:...my point about the Attorneys only infers that the Post Office will have to pay someone to actually go to court to dispute my claim and those cost would certainly far outweigh the cost of the entire claim.

...unless, of course, the judge rules in favor of the defendant (USPS), and orders YOU to pay/reimburse the court costs, the defendant's attorneys' fees, etc., which is not unprecedented in some jurisdictions.

It's a shame that detailed photographs aren't acceptable to prove proper packaging. (I think they are for some services...)

DS

I guess when you are passionate and confident about what you feel it's easy to overlook the decision going the othe way.

Maybe too easy.

Blizz

I like the idea of trying your luck at another Post Office. It would still be up to the buyer to do that unless the phonograph was shipped back

Good advise though.

blizz

You will not be able to even attempt to file a small claims case until the USPS claims appeal process has be exhausted.

In short, you have two appeals that must be filed and denied before you can take any further action in court.

If you have not filed an appeal, but would like the information on how to do so, I would be happy to post it for you.

That said, there is some question as to whether one can even sue the USPS (unless they determine that they will allow it), as they fall under the sheltering umbrella of the Federal Government (which, ironically, under Section 39 of the US Code makes it an independent agency of the government), and technically you cannot sue them.

It's all clear as mud now, right?

Anyway, let me know if you want the info on the appeal process...