Info on Pathé Actuelle Classique

[OrthoSean]

If everything is adjusted right and in proper order (ie the cone isn't wrecked), they sound excellent on both laterals and verticals, it's a very "present" sound.

Sean

[SonnyPhono]

Just for the sake of curiosity I would like to hear one of these compared to the internal horn models.. It would seem that Pathé thought it was an improvement of some type, or maybe just pandering to radio type speakers to draw the public? One reason I have not owned a Pathé in recent years is that generally the horns just don't look very well thought out in the cabinet designs, but maybe they sound a lot better than they appear.

Larry

The one that I had sounded very good. I was very surprised when I listened to it for the first time because I too thought the principles behind the sound production wouldn't be able to compare to a larger internal horn machine. But it's capabilities can be surprising. Here is a video of the one I had playing. I used a cheap, low quality camera to take the video so the audio quality is low. But you get the overall point.

[youtubehd]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQf6Mh4QH8s[/youtubehd]

[SonnyPhono]

An example of the Pathé Actuelle Sheraton/Adam style phonograph mentioned above. I bought this in 1983-4 from a phonograph collector outside of Ithaca NY. While this is badged on the serial number plate as "Art Model" I always thought that this was a very plain, somber looking machine. And maybe, in 1919-1920, that was the point----tastes were moving away from the ornamentation so prevalent in the pre-WW-I years. Despite the repairs to the cone diffuser (on there when I bought this) it is a nice sounding machine.

For anyone interested, here is a Sheraton/Adam style Actuelle on Craigslist for $125. I wish it wasn't so far away from me, especially for such a low price!

http://appleton.craigslist.org/atq/3115630632.html

[pughphonos]

Am I insane or what? I just bought the $125 item--you can't go wrong with a price like that. Pathé restoration, here I come. Also I do tend to buy the testimony that these machines sound good; whether up to the level of a Victor Orthophonic is to be seen. I bet that their odd appearance--and the fact that the Actuelle mechanism came out ca. 1920--just when radio was about to kill the weaker phono companies--explains its lack of commercial success.

[pughphonos]

I just bought the machine for $125!

Would a Pathé Actuelle Sheraton (with paper cone) be able to play Edison Diamond Discs using its sapphire stylus option? Most curious as I own a Diamond Disc phonograph and 525 discs. If the Pathé plays the DDs well and safely enough I might be able to unload the Edison disc player.

[syncopeter]

@Sonnyphono,

It sounds every bit as well as most contemporary internal and external horn gramophones, if not better.
Mind you, a friend of mine has an early 20s internal horn model Pathé with reproducers for both vertical and lateral records. Despite its relatively short and small horn, it easily surpasses his big Victrola in sound quality. It has at least an extra octave in both bass and treble. Pathé made the weirdest machines, but I've never heard one that didn't sound superb compared to other gramophones from the same period.
Like an Edison DD phonograph, somehow they got it right.
Another friend has got a DD with a factory made converter for lateral records. That machine sounds equally as good, if not better, as his restored HMV model 163. And that was made 10 years later!
The only real problem with an Actuelle is the vulnerability of the cone.

[pughphonos]

I'm so glad to hear testimony that the Pathé sound is quite rich. I'm not as concerned about ear-spitting volume, such as you can get from a Victor Orthophonic; just as long as there's a nice tonal range. Also, the Pathé Actuelle set-up, in which the whole cabinet (when opened) acts as the horn, apparently floods the room more evenly with music than the narrowly-directed internal horns do.

Still curious if anyone has any experience playing Edison Diamond Discs on a Pathé Actuelle (with the stylus set to the vertical/sapphire ball). How is the tone? Any notable skipping problems? The Pathé Actuelle obviously does not have a tone-arm drive mechanism as do the Edison machines, but I'm assuming the tone arm on the Actuelle is light and balanced/pivoted enough to be able to track across a Diamond Disc.

[Guest]

A sapphire ball would not fit the diamond disc groove.
You would need a stylus that has a diamond shank needle with a conical stylus. A few companies offered them back in the day, and theu occasionally turn up on ebay. I've had one for over 20 years, and I recently won a NOS Oro-Tone diamond stylus along with 2 sapphie ball stylus by the same company, all with their original pakaging, for only $50 the lot.
My experience with these early diamond tipped shanks that were designed for edison records has been positive.
I must admit I dont play my DDs very often using these needles on my machines that can play them, but I do play a few favorites occasionally, and I have never noticed any record wear by doing so.
I think the most important things are to ensure the diamond is in A1 condition, that your tonearm (or cone in this case) pivot freely and smoothly, and to make sure the machine is perfectly level.
With those 3 covered, I see no reason whatsoever, why you couldn't, or shouldn't play Edison discs on your Pathé Actuelle.

That said, I wouldn't rush into selling your Edison machine. I've yet to hear a machine of any type or brand that can reproduce Edisons discs as well as his own phonographs can. Then again, I've never heard one played on an Actuelle, but I'd be extremely surprised if you got the same quality of sound you can from an Edison machine. Other machines/reproducers just seem to lack the"punch" & clarity an Edison system delivers, and although some machines can sound pretty darn good playing a diamond disc, it's still a little like downgrading from stereo to mono.

[pughphonos]

Thank you for this invaluable information regarding the proper stylus/attachment for Pathé Actuelles so that they might play Diamond Discs. I agree with your recommendation--which is not to let my Diamond Disc player go too quickly. I'm a very fussy audiophile and will definitely do tons of side-by-side comparisons before taking such a step--if I do. I promise to let this forum know what I discover. It should take some weeks as I have yet to pick up the Pathé and then get it sufficiently repaired and adapted before I can start any evaluation.

I'm a pianist and church organist with a good ear for pitch and I invest in antique phonograph repairs so that they come closest to an even pitch as possible. I know one can only expect so much from this old technology, but at least I want it to sound as good as it can. The first half of this year I spent arranging, and paying for, expensive repairs to my Edison Triumph cylinder player; motor cleaned, belt replaced; Diamond B and Model O reproducers obtained. Only in the past ten days did I reach the point (following my own final adjustments) that I felt it was now playing "right on"--and all the cost and effort worthwhile. My Diamond Disc machine (a Sheraton sans inlay) went through the same process: I equipped it with a double-spring motor and an Edisonic reproducer. The Pathé Actuelle won't send the DD player out the door unless it meets my standards--rest assured. But from what I have heard from others on this forum, the Pathé Actuelle does have potential--especially with its diffused sound (made possible by the paper cone).

Ralph

[pughphonos]

Hi all, it's been awhile, but I have FINALLY taken delivery of my Pathé Actuelle "Sheraton" model (lowboy/horizontal). I've had it for only a day and am weighing it against my Victor Granada (4-4) Orthophonic. On the Orthophonic side it can't be denied that the Orthophonic has a brighter, louder sound and somewhat more resonance. But that resonance can easily give way to "blast." Whereas the Pathé Actuelle has almost as much detail but NEVER produces any harsh sounds; everything is always remarkably balanced.

So, it's a case of gain something, lose something when choosing between the two.

What might take the Pathé Actuelle over the finish line in becoming my main machine is how it sounds with Edison Diamond Discs. I can't test that as yet as I don't have the right stylus. Anyone have any suggestions as to where I can find the Edison (and Pathé, for that matter) styli for the Actuelle? Another question: are they different than the various vertical styli that were made for the earlier (pre-Actuelle) Pathé machines?

Final comment. I am very, very impressed with the Pathé Actuelle "Sheraton" double-spring motor. My machine has probably not been run for around 40 years--maybe more--and once I cranked it up (the spring had run totally down) she has been keeping speed remarkably well, with NO bumps/thuds from old grease deposits. Seems to crank more smoothly and unwind more smoothly than any Victor motor or Edison motors I have dealt with thus far.

Ralph