The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

SonnyPhono wrote:By far the loudest record I have ever hear was "Doin' The Raccoon" on Diamond Disc played on a C-250. I used a dosimeter to measure the average and peak decibel output at one foot from the horn opening and the average was over 100 decibels with a peak decibel level at one point in the selection reaching 132 decibels! Unbelievable!

Yeah, that's a great disc, I was fortunate enough to get a copy a few years ago reasonably, however, it's an electric recording!

Sean

OrthoSean wrote:

SonnyPhono wrote:By far the loudest record I have ever hear was "Doin' The Raccoon" on Diamond Disc played on a C-250. I used a dosimeter to measure the average and peak decibel output at one foot from the horn opening and the average was over 100 decibels with a peak decibel level at one point in the selection reaching 132 decibels! Unbelievable!

Yeah, that's a great disc, I was fortunate enough to get a copy a few years ago reasonably, however, it's an electric recording!

Sean

Good point about it being an electric recording. I guess I read the title of the thread wrong. It does say acoustic record, not acoustic machine. I thought this was for the loudest record played on an acoustic machine, or a machine without any electric amplification. Thanks for correcting me! : )

Still, it is very impressive even though it was electrically recorded at the amount of volume produced. It blows me away that such tiny undulations in the groove, small enough to be measured in ten-thousandths of an inch, can cause a diaphragm to vibrate and in turn force minute air compressions through an open horn to produce volumes of 130 decibels or more!

I just played three Victor dance sides that are extraordinarily good from the standpoint of acoustic recording technique. The first is Paul Whiteman's Orchestra By the Waters of the Minnetonka on 19391 recorded in New York in June 11, 1924
The other two are by the Benson Orchestra of Chicago Go, Emmaline and Words on 19484 and That's Georgia and Morning on 19445. These were recorded in Camden in August and September 1924. They're quite amazing: loud, balanced forward and especially good in terms of the bass response. The tuba actually sounds like one rather than a bass kazoo. Too bad Victor couldn't seem to record like this consistently. All these sides are recorded on the slow side: 74 rpm at the most. The Whiteman does that excessively annoying Victor thing where the cutter slowed during the recording so consequently the pitch rises as the thing plays. Drives me mad, but maybe that's a piano tuner thing.
The Youtube upload of That's Georgia doesn't do the record justice and it's a tad fast.


Jim

I have a slightly different view of the topic here. I would like a topic that uses quality listening acoustic recordings as the goal. Loud is not always something that makes a record better. In fact if anything loud is often what can make them nearly unbearable. Its why Victor suggested not using a loud tone needle unless the machine was played in a large hall. Its also why they suggested you might enjoy your machine more if you listened to it from another room! No loud is not good. Buzzing ear drums was never a favorite sound of mine. What I want is a record I can sit an enjoy without being overwhelmed by effect. I want it to enjoy it. Granted there is nothing wrong with a record that has a good volume in the right places, but volume for the sake of volume is usually a distortion of the actual music. Plus a lot of this has to do with the type of machine, horn size and diaphragm size. I have a small Telefunken portable that has wonderful sound for its size, but only with a soft toned needle or it will run you out of the room. So louder in that case is not better by any means. My edisons can truly be very loud, too loud in some cases, I don't enjoy those pieces unless the mute is nearly closed or the room is huge. I have that very comparison going on as I test my diaphragms, in my home the rooms are resonate and medium at best, the 250 horn is very loud in this setting. Next door I have an S 19 and a C 19 upright in the basement. That area can tolerate the loud record with much better results. Most machines however are in a more residential setting.

My interest have always considered the subtle parts of the music which oddly are not always improved by loud diaphragms. Its the ability of a diaphragm to portray the whole range in a balanced way that is the most important to me. Acoustic recordings can accent the horns to a major degree, I doubt seriously that the horns in a real life listening arrangement would blast out over the other instruments as they often do, usually with poor results. A horn that "fits" the music at a more listenable level is much more enjoyable to me.

Larryh: very well stated. I completely agree with your observations. One of the reasons that I want to get my basement finished is so that I can move my machines down there and have a good listening environment. In one of my previous homes, I had a finished basement with thick padded carpeting and acoustic ceiling tile. It had excellent acoustic characteristics with very little to no reverb. Right now my machines are all crammed into a small bedroom, nothing sounds good in there and, as a result, I don't play them very often.

Jim

The loudest acoustic I have is an Ocarina solo on Victor "The Swiss Shepherd"- it is piercing to the point of being painful. The victor catalog specifically states This record is VERY LOUD and cautions not to use a loud needle.

I recently picked up an acoustic Edison Diamond Disc 50677, Easter Carols and Stephen Foster's Melodies, both played on the bells of Old Trinity Church, New York, by William B. Murray. This is the most ear-splitting record I've ever heard, even with the mute ball fully in. Frankly, I'd love the hear the story of how this was recorded!

estott wrote:The loudest acoustic I have is an Ocarina solo on Victor "The Swiss Shepherd"- it is piercing to the point of being painful. The victor catalog specifically states This record is VERY LOUD and cautions not to use a loud needle.

Here's an example (and yes, I did use a loud needle on this one):

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N36erN-2xtY[/youtube]

52089 wrote:I recently picked up an acoustic Edison Diamond Disc 50677, Easter Carols and Stephen Foster's Melodies, both played on the bells of Old Trinity Church, New York, by William B. Murray. This is the most ear-splitting record I've ever heard, even with the mute ball fully in. Frankly, I'd love the hear the story of how this was recorded!

I'm guessing that the recording was made inside the bell tower, where the bells must be really loud.

Clay

While I don't have that exact record of the bells I can say from lots of listening that many times the effects you get are not correct and often its the fault of the diaphragm not the record. I have commented about this recently on my thread under the Designing a diaphragm for Edison Disc. on the Online Edison Discussion Board. I recently purchased a diaphragm produced recently for a short time. I was aware it could over play some sounds incorrectly due to the nature of the material. Just recently I got a version of the Moonlight Sonata by the Belini Unique Ensemble. With my True Tone version the sound was distinct and played with a very natural sound. (I have other records by that group from the late acoustic periods and they do have a very full range), When I tired the purchased diaphragm the record took on the effect of sort of ringing off the walls and very unpleasant. I was really rather surprised as the record wasn't even particularly loud which sometimes can produce horn sounds much too uncomfortable for good listening if the diaphragm tends to exaggerate the high end. I have worked hard to develop something that will keep the sound well balanced so that it sounds much more realistic and with depth usually not heard from newer versions. This is exactly why overly loud can tend to leave one with sound that is not really representative of the original performance with many instruments. I don't think that most people purchased a victrola to be run out of their living rooms.