What is wrong about this machine

[Starkton]

I believe the French Berliner is mahogany and not teak

I'll bet you my entire collection you're wrong!

Where can I fetch your collection, as it is French walnut!

Apart from the new nickel plated parts the condition of the decals turns me off. Especially with such an expensive machine.

[Steve]

What parts are new / nickel plated in your opinion?

That horn looks as though it has been nickel plated, but not originally? This machine came from a French collector who has owned it for 40 years plus. The same collector also owned this machine:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/280889287512? ... 1438.l2649

Note the dazzling nickel plated horn AGAIN. And the elbow. Looks a bit too good to be true really. Did the previous owner have a nickel plating business? I did ask the vendor whether he thought the cabinet had also been refinished on this machine. Has anyone else ever spotted a Cockle Shell Monarch without the gilt transfers? It also looks a bit too vivid in colour. Guido did reply that he thought it might have been redone as the transfer had gone. Also, I'm not convinced about the black and gilt back-bracket. Isn't that a Victor bracket? Did HMV produce machines with these brackets apart from the dimunitive Baby Monarch, which was really a Victor machine anyway,that is?

[Starkton]

What parts are new / nickel plated in your opinion?

It seems to me that the corroded nickel plating of the crank best represents the original condition.

[Starkton]

I have to withdraw my statement that the horn was never nickeled, although it looks awfully "new", especially in comparison with the soundbox and the elbow fixing clip.

[gramophone78]

I believe the French Berliner is mahogany and not teak

I'll bet you my entire collection you're wrong!

Where can I fetch your collection, as it is French walnut!

Apart from the new nickel plated parts the condition of the decals turns me off. Especially with such an expensive machine.

Well, I for one find this very interesting. I have never heard of a French walnut TM case either. Regarding the nickel.....to me the spring case has also been buffed hard on a wheel. I say this because the numbers stamped on the top are now not as crisp as you would expect.
As far as I know, there was a all nickel or (aluminum??) horn available for these French machines. However, this horn appears to have been re-plated or???. There was a steel nickel plated horn available in Canada for a TM. It was the most expensive optional horn a customer could buy.

[TinfoilPhono]

Steve, you can pack up your collection and send it on out.

The French version of the trademark was indeed made in both mahogany AND walnut. See the catalog page below. The illustration on the right says "Boîte Acajou ou Noyer," or "Case of Mahogany or Walnut."

Walnut was very commonly used for many French machines. Obviously including this Trademark.

[Steve]

LOL! Yes, I do appreciate that HMV (via Victor) exported different cabinet varieties to the European continent. In fact, the Trademark model was made in ash, maple, walnut, mahogany, oak and even white enamelled softwood! Has anyone ever seen one of those?

However I still think looking at the grain that this is definitely not mahogany. According to experts, woodworm does not attack mahogany either, which might give us another clue to its type. The grain certainly 'looks' identical to my teak machines anyway.

On the subject of the Cockle Shell Monarch, I too noted that the 'Y' clamp appears slightly rusty whilst the winder looks like new. The tone-arm and soundbox exhibit typical wear and tear whilst the horn and elbow look as though they were made yesterday. Starkton asked "How does that all fit together?" The answer is simply that it doesn't.

Having said all that, what are the opinions of you experts regarding the provenance of the horn etc?

Is it simply a re-nickelled original brass horn? Maybe the owner liked silver and not gold!

PS - Starkton, can you throw any light on the use of the black/gilt back-bracket? Is that correct or should it be back on a Victor machine? I can't recall ever seeing a black enamelled back-bracket on an HMV horn machine.

[penman]

Where can I fetch your collection, as it is French walnut!

I agree with Starkton. I believe this is French walnut, which is lighter in color and more even grained (sometimes) than english walnut. It is also somewhat susceptible to insect damage.

[Sidewinder]

Whats wrong: I would say "Condition" primarily. I'm not a dendrologist but I have never seen woodworm in mahogany. It is a dealer who is selling this.

[gramophone78]

Where can I fetch your collection, as it is French walnut!

I agree with Starkton. I believe this is French walnut, which is lighter in color and more even grained (sometimes) than english walnut. It is also somewhat susceptible to insect damage.

OOOPS, that is not my quote but starkton's.... . Too many quotes going around.... . Rene, thanks for posting the cat. page. I really find that most interesting. Although I never had an interest in UK or European TM's. It is wonderful to see how different they were to our models here in North America. By the way.....Steve bet his collection that is was not "mahogany". I think we can all agree that it is not mahogany but French walnut.... .