The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

CarlosV wrote:Something to point out (pun intended) is that the fiber needles were doped with different formulations of wood hardening solutions - some of them toxic and therefore not practically useable today. Without the doping the fibers, in particular bamboo, will wear prematurely. A 1924 Gramophone magazine article mentions one of these formulas, which includes gum arabic, see below (copied from the Gramophone web site):

Place a dozen or So fibres in ordinary gum to soak for a few days, then put in small tin saucepan with half gum and half water, bring to gentle boil for a few minutes, take out and wipe clean each fibre, and lay in flat tin or porcelain plate, and leave to dry thoroughly for a day or so, slightly warm them in oven or in ti over gas, and they are ready for use.
As a test I have used a doped fibre needle on a friend's instrument, playing eleven sides of different records, some of which were heavy recordings, without deterioration of clear tone. I may mention that the dope being a " water mixture " is antithetic to the material of records, so any minute debris worn off into the grooves will not adhere, as would a elope of shellac spirit varnish (used by one eloper I came across).

Two questions:

1. When people talk about fiber needle construction, people usually employ the past tense. However, bamboo needles are being manufactured and sold today, so some hardening techniques are surely being employed nowadays. Does someone know the technique they are using?

2. Eleven sides without deterioration... Seems to be a really hard needle. Will it then be any better than a steel needle regarding record wear?

Thank you in advance.

I have bought some of the newly made bamboo needles available, from two or three sources, and none actually lasts for longer than one side of a reasonably good shape disc. This leads me to conclude that these bamboo needles are not doped, just cut from pieces of bamboo and packaged.

As to record wear, it is not correct that bamboo needles do not cause wear. They work fine with discs up to the 30s, and some pressings from the 40s. There are exceptions, though: some of the cheaper pressings from the 20s - Grey Gull is one - are immediately worn if played with thorns or bamboos (learned from my own experience). I cannot really tell if the doped needle quoted in the Gramophone magazine would wear the disc like a steel one. I never found one bamboo needle that lasted more than two sides of a disc without the need to be repointed, including some supposedly vintage ones.

One tip which I got from Sean Miller (Thanks!) to get the best wear from a bamboo or thorn needle the tone arm has to move freely. When using bamboo needles on my Credenza I disconnect the automatic stop- I can play two or three sides that way. It also helps to store the needles in a jar containing silica gel to keep them dry.

amrcg wrote:Hi!

Has anyone ever experimented with sharpened tooth sticks?

Regards,
António

Well, as a new guy, maybe I just don't know what I'm not supposed to do, but I just sat with an emory board and two round toothpick ends, happily juggling old Whitemans and the like for the past hour or so on my two HMV 102s. Sounded pretty nice! Maybe only slightly softer than a steel soft-tone needle. This may just be my new "thing" for when the kids go to bed, but I still want to play. And the dull records are now noticeably shinier, to boot.

I made fibre needles once out of bamboo skewers; part of the process involved hardening them in boiling paraffin. A little scary, but it worked--the needles were fine. There is a recipe on the web http://www.angelfire.com/nc3/talkingmac ... e.html[url][/url]

Can you use fiber needles on Pathés? I would try myself but I don't have anything to play Pathés.
-Tom

Bamboo skewers are sold in packs at my local Weis market, near the meat department. You could make a whole lot of needles out of one pack! Of course, you'd have to shape them and treat them

Tpapp54321 wrote:Can you use fiber needles on Pathés? I would try myself but I don't have anything to play Pathés.
-Tom

I have a Pathé Actuelle. It has a triangular needle chuck for the bamboo needles and works very well using them.

Regarding bamboo needles: I used to cut these myself from bamboo stalk. Not difficult and I got soft, medium and loud tone sizes!
I think point longevity in playing records is best when the needle has the hard, smooth exterior of the stalk as one of it's three sides. Points made with bamboo skewers might not last as long.

I have used natural bamboo harvested from my local zoo works well but hard to shape skewers work well if dried well before using like in a food dryer then shaping then using wax to finish them emery board to resharpen between plays one bamboo needle lasts a long time before having to replacing it but I use mostly soft tone needles these days and play them on my modern TT when I want record or preserve my really good records. You really can't beat a well setup modern TT setup though for really beautiful playback for punch and loudness and fidelity of 78's Heresy I know but true but I love my acoustic machines for that nostalgic sound
Dwight