The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

Jerry B. wrote:I believe the same blue horn was offered with a Fireside, perhaps in a mail order combination. It seems like too much horn but I've read this somewhere. Jerry

Yep - the blue horn was also offered with a Fireside, and to compensate, the machine was equipped with an extra foot on the bottom of the cabinet. You can see this on page 61 of Antique Phonograph Accessories & Contraptions (as shown in scan below).

I'll pile on with the others and advise against messing with the horn. It looks fine as it is - certainly better than most of these. If it looks dry or dull, you could use a soft cotton cloth to apply a creme polish called OZ. It has the consistency of milk. It will gently clean and preserve the paint. You just lightly wipe it on, let it sit for as long as you wish (it won't hurt anything even if left on for days - I've tried it), then wipe it off. No rubbing, no buffing. Good stuff.

The suggestion of a Tiz-It is a good one. You also might keep your eyes open for an original Edison elbow as shown below. These turn up pretty regularly at phono shows. I think I paid $40 for the last one I bought about 3 years ago.

George P.

Jerry B. wrote:I believe the same blue horn was offered with a Fireside, perhaps in a mail order combination. It seems like too much horn but I've read this somewhere. Jerry

I think the flower horns were a Babson Brothers specialty were they not? I remember reading that Edison listed them in their regular catalogue so that the dealers could offer the same combination if a customer who had presumably seen the Babson material came in and asked for one.
JRT

Lenoirstreetguy wrote: I think the flower horns were a Babson Brothers specialty were they not? I remember reading that Edison listed them in their regular catalogue so that the dealers could offer the same combination if a customer who had presumably seen the Babson material came in and asked for one.
JRT

You're right, but of course this blue horn wasn't an exclusively Babson-supplied product. Babson had red and blue horns made up with Babson Bros. decals and supplied them with Edison Standard Model Bs as early as 1907 if I remember right. I've never seen any Edison documentation to confirm this situation/reaction, but no doubt some Edison dealers were annoyed that Babson could offer colorful horns with Edison machines while small non-mail-order dealers were stuck with the plain-Jane black horns supplied by Edison. It would have been great if Edison had supplied colorful horns (like the blue one under discussion) years earlier. For some reason, the Australian market received some Edison-supplied horns painted green and robins egg blue - something that probably would have been welcomed in the North American markets.

George P.

Thank you all for all the information. I got the message and will not paint the horn. I will try to clean it somewhat.

I was under the impression that this type of horn only came with the Standard E, I am surprised to find out it came with the Fireside for a time.

And, as luck would have it, the horn came with the Edison elbow mentioned by George P.

I tried connecting the horn directly with this elbow and a chain between the horn and crane. This did not work, as it pulled the reproducer off the cylinder. I will continue to work this arrangement to shorten the 6 inches of rubber tubing I am having to use currently.

Thank you all again for all the useful information. I have been a member for a short time, but am never disappointed when I ask questions. I hope that someday soon, I will have enough knowledge to be helpful so a newby and return the favor.

mattrx wrote: And, as luck would have it, the horn came with the Edison elbow mentioned by George P.

I'm surprised nobody noticed that elbow in your pics (I did) ... I once offered $100 less than the $460 asking price of a Columbia BQ with boxes of cylinders, but no elbow to connect the soundbox to the tone-arm. They took the offer, which was about all I had, and I gathered all the goodies to go home. Much to my surprise, the elbow in question was inside the cabinet, under the motor! It is now one of my favorite machines, getting much use at home and in demonstrations.

The fact that yours survived this long, with the elbow intact, is remarkable. Chain & rubber length should be all you need to fiddle with.

You are very lucky to have that original elbow. I've never seen one before. A half-inch copper street ell from the plumbing section of your local hardware will work quite well if you can't find a Tiz-It or an original elbow. I have a Tiz-It but I'm not fond of it. However it came with my Fireside, along with a Chicago Crane and H&S nickel-plated tricolor horn, so there it stays.
As far as your crane: is the straight rod adjustable as to how far it extends from the curved section? I have two of Ron Sitko's cranes and they are both adjustable and have thumbscrews to hold them in place. This adjustment is critical to keep the horn from interfering with the carriage.
This morning I promised photos but couldn't get to them today. Will try to get them uploaded sometime tomorrow.


Jim

Now that I've bothered to enlarge your photos ( ) I see both your Edison elbow and the Phillips-head screw in your crane. Try loosening that screw and see if the straight rod will telescope back into the lower piece. All you really need to do is shorten that reach and you'll be set.

George P.

The crane is at its shortest point. One suggestion was to cut off a small portion of the straight arm of the crane. I think that would work, but since I think the crane is original, it should not be necessary to do that. Also, it would devalue the crane, just as painting would devalue the horn. I will try a short chain, and shortening the tube tonight after work.

Thanks for all the advice. I cut the rubber down to approximately 3 inches, and added 3 inches of brass finish chain and it looks much better and will still play well. Now out to find some good cylinders!!!!!!!(This is my first experience with Cylinder Phonos)

Earlier Scott mentioned the E's coming with a large-eye, slanted carrier arm, (not vertically above the mandrel). I recently acquired an E which does not appear to ever having been used with a crane and I was wondering if anyone has a photo of the crane which Scott is talking about?

Thanks

Bruce