The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

epigramophone wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 4:36 am In 60 years collecting I have come across very few examples of the "hermit" mentality.

Until Covid spoiled my social life there was hardly a week when I would not meet one of my collector friends, either at my home or theirs. Every month five or six of us would meet for an afternoon, playing records and solving the problems of the world. Every couple of months the CLPGS West of England Group, of which I am Chairman, would meet in a member's home for a presentation of records by the host, followed by afternoon tea and records brought by the guests. The group has not been able to meet since March 2020, and is much missed by all the regular attendees.

Restrictions in England are set to be lifted in late June, so I am now making tentative plans to relaunch the group later this year.

gramophone-georg wrote: Tue Dec 01, 2020 10:21 pm

Mormon S wrote:

Curt A wrote:"So, the idea that older people might not "accept" black artists is, for the most part, a thing of the past. No person in his/her right mind would judge anyone by the color of their skin. The push back comes from the comparison to real talent and character...

I see what you're saying and you make good points. I think the difference is that Rap and Hip-hop have historically been about the struggles of living in the US being black, while the race of the popular performers of color of the past was hardly mentioned.

Also the way you "define" music is extremely subjective. For one, harmony, melody, acoustical instruments and vocals are in fact present in hip hop. Lyrics are absolutely an expression of emotion and they can be beautiful ("beauty is in the eye of the beholder" as they say). In a sense a computer IS an instrument and is just as hard and in some cases harder to create good music with than with a traditional instrument. I find it funny when people claim it "requires no skill", I would love to see someone unexperienced with digitally producing music try and create anything good in the span of a month.

And again with the generalizing. Eminem does not use auto tune, never made "711" tracks, and often uses "real" instruments in his music alongside masterfully produced partially synthesized instrumentals. Rap and hip hop often includes and samples music of other genres like jazz, R&b, soul, reggae etc. Repetitive lyrics, sexist lyrics and lip syncing is present in a plethora of genres.

A few artists/groups that I personally enjoy; A Tribe Called Quest, biggie, Nujabes, Dreamville, J.Cole, Polo G, Cordae, Joyner Lucas, Logic, and the list can go on. There are genres of music I don't like, but I will never deny that it is music, that it can't be meaningful or that people can be passionate about it.

Martin

It also has to do with what's become familiar. Lots of people don't like Japanese opera, but Japanese people sure do. Likewise, Yoko Ono is an acquired taste, but lots of John Lennon fans forced a listen.

Not to pick on the Japanese- it's just two examples I thought of.

But seriously- lots of todays "kids" are familiar with and like things like Steely Dan, Emerson Lake and Palmer, CSN and sometimes Y, disco, funk, etc. Why? Their parents or grandparents listened to it- it was their era. Maybe the grandparents listened to the Beatles or the Stones.

My parents' era was "crooner" and "doo- wop"... yuckola. (just my opinion). But my grandparents and great aunts/ uncles all graduated in the 1920-40 era. Growing up, I was exposed to TONS of this music, and being in NYC and then Ohio didn't hurt. Even though all my buddies turned their noses up at it as "square" it wasn't unusual for me to be listening to Hendrix, Sly and the Family Stone, The Brothers Johnson, or The Dan intermixed with Tommy Dorsey or Bernie Cummins.

Guess what I'm saying is that the further back in history your music travels, the older your demographic is likely to be. I would imagine that the music audience on YT is going to be older overall, anyways, due to copyright laws. Youngins ain't going to find their current faves there, and, this being the case, it's not likely they'll stumble across the sort of music WE enjoy. It's not available where they are. If it were, it might be attracting a younger demographic.

gramophone-georg wrote: Tue Dec 01, 2020 10:21 pm

Mormon S wrote:

Curt A wrote:"So, the idea that older people might not "accept" black artists is, for the most part, a thing of the past. No person in his/her right mind would judge anyone by the color of their skin. The push back comes from the comparison to real talent and character...

I see what you're saying and you make good points. I think the difference is that Rap and Hip-hop have historically been about the struggles of living in the US being black, while the race of the popular performers of color of the past was hardly mentioned.

Also the way you "define" music is extremely subjective. For one, harmony, melody, acoustical instruments and vocals are in fact present in hip hop. Lyrics are absolutely an expression of emotion and they can be beautiful ("beauty is in the eye of the beholder" as they say). In a sense a computer IS an instrument and is just as hard and in some cases harder to create good music with than with a traditional instrument. I find it funny when people claim it "requires no skill", I would love to see someone unexperienced with digitally producing music try and create anything good in the span of a month.

And again with the generalizing. Eminem does not use auto tune, never made "711" tracks, and often uses "real" instruments in his music alongside masterfully produced partially synthesized instrumentals. Rap and hip hop often includes and samples music of other genres like jazz, R&b, soul, reggae etc. Repetitive lyrics, sexist lyrics and lip syncing is present in a plethora of genres.

A few artists/groups that I personally enjoy; A Tribe Called Quest, biggie, Nujabes, Dreamville, J.Cole, Polo G, Cordae, Joyner Lucas, Logic, and the list can go on. There are genres of music I don't like, but I will never deny that it is music, that it can't be meaningful or that people can be passionate about it.

Martin

It also has to do with what's become familiar. Lots of people don't like Japanese opera, but Japanese people sure do. Likewise, Yoko Ono is an acquired taste, but lots of John Lennon fans forced a listen.

Not to pick on the Japanese- it's just two examples I thought of.

But seriously- lots of todays "kids" are familiar with and like things like Steely Dan, Emerson Lake and Palmer, CSN and sometimes Y, disco, funk, etc. Why? Their parents or grandparents listened to it- it was their era. Maybe the grandparents listened to the Beatles or the Stones.

My parents' era was "crooner" and "doo- wop"... yuckola. (just my opinion). But my grandparents and great aunts/ uncles all graduated in the 1920-40 era. Growing up, I was exposed to TONS of this music, and being in NYC and then Ohio didn't hurt. Even though all my buddies turned their noses up at it as "square" it wasn't unusual for me to be listening to Hendrix, Sly and the Family Stone, The Brothers Johnson, or The Dan intermixed with Tommy Dorsey or Bernie Cummins.

Guess what I'm saying is that the further back in history your music travels, the older your demographic is likely to be. I would imagine that the music audience on YT is going to be older overall, anyways, due to copyright laws. Youngins ain't going to find their current faves there, and, this being the case, it's not likely they'll stumble across the sort of music WE enjoy. It's not available where they are. If it were, it might be attracting a younger demographic.