The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

1. My Triumph does have the serial number on top of the straight edge, but so faint that I had not noticed it before.

2. I attach pictures of the "locking lug" in the open and closed positions. It is definitely not the same as yours.

hbick2 wrote:
Does your Triumph also have the serial number on the top of the straight edge? If your look at my photo taken straight down at the bedplate, you can clearly see 30136 stamped on the top edge. I had assumed that this was a carryover from the Spring Motor days, but I'm not sure that was standard on them. I've seen pictures of them with and without the serial number. Maybe George can answer this.

Unfortunately, I didn't keep data on the presence or absence of the serial number on the straight-edge.

epigramophone wrote:I attach pictures of the "locking lug" in the open and closed positions. It is definitely not the same as yours.

I can't recall the details off the top of my head, but there was a legal problem with Edison importing ball-catch Triumphs into the UK because of a previous import relationship with Edison-Bell. We almost never see that "British version" here in the States.

George P.

According to Frow (Appendix IV) for legal reasons certain modifications needed to be made to Edison machines sold by Edison Bell in the UK.
One modification involved the locking latch on the end gate. My Triumph dates to late 1901, so if it was sold new in the UK it must have been sold by Edison Bell.

epigramophone wrote: My Triumph dates to late 1901, so if it was sold new in the UK it must have been sold by Edison Bell.

Since Triumph production began in May 1901 at approx. #30000, #30360 more probably dates to July/August 1901.

George P.

Well I guess I’ll be the first in this Decade to post in this thread after 3 years of inactivity

Edison Spring Motor/Triumph Questionnaire
1) Serial number (found on top): 66908

2) Is serial number stamped in a plate, or a raised boss? plate

3) If stamped in a plate, what’s the last patent date? May 22, 1906

4) Does straight edge (where front of reproducer carriage rides) have 2 screws? no

5) Does the upper casting have lugs for Class M pulley wheels? no

6) Which secures the endgate; a ball catch, or a locking lug? lug

7) Does carriage hold the reproducer with nickeled clips, or a single screw at 2:00 position?
Just the screw

8) Motor number (found stamped on front of motor frame): 31949 or 51949 can’t make it out well

9) Are the motor gears solid or spoked? solid

10) If there’s a plate below the mandrel, what exactly does it say? none

11) Which does the cabinet have; a drawer, a banner decal, or an “Edison” script decal? script. No drawer or separate compartment.

12) Are there any dated material with it? Just a reproduction speed yoke from an early collector.

Thanks Andy. The motor number of your Triumph will be 51949.

A detailed illustrated history of the Edison Spring Motor and Triumph appeared in the December 2019 issue of the APS magazine. I'm still collecting data though, because one never knows if a serial number gap can be narrowed for a particular production benchmark.

If you send me your last name, I'll add it to my spreadsheet for your Triumph.

George P.

Hopefully this one helps narrow the range. I recently purchased and refurbished Banner #30028. Sorry to whoever I beat in the auction, but I had parts to fix it up and a good hookup with member Terry to get it rolling. It sounds great. Wyatt just rebuilt the combo reproducer. Thrilled to add such an early machine to my Triumph collection. So, George P.....

Serial # 30028
Stamped on Plate
Lug for latch
Screw at 2, but soon to go to automatic
Solid gears
Banner case

Thank you, Dan! Much appreciated...

George P.

Don't tease us Dan. Show us more pictures.

Serial Number 6324
Raised Boss
May 31 1898
Strait edge has 2 screws
Casting has lugs for pulley wheels
Ball catch
This SM has an Emerson type clip on it but it looks like it came from the factory with 2 clips.
Motor Number 1322
Spoked Gears
Plate Missing and the hole pattern is longer than the standard type Spring Motor Plate. (I have an Ohio Phonograph Co. Dealer plate on it now)
Cabinet has a drawer
At one time, the lid had a United States Phonograph Company label pasted on the inside.
The machine also has a rubber mandrel.