Page 20 of 36
Re: Phonospace (or, "Where's Waldo?)
Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2014 8:35 am
by phonogfp
Anil's collection is well worth a visit!
There's a lot more that doesn't show in the photos, but I don't want to spoil any potential surprises...
The reproduction tinfoil machines are nice, and a couple are downright scary. I told Anil that if I encountered the Bergmann reproduction in the wild, I would be convinced it was the real thing. The only way to tell would be to consult Rene's excellent book (still available I believe) on tinfoil phonographs and start counting thread pitch. About 15 years ago, a very advanced collector/dealer was fooled, and paid 5 figures for what he thought was a genuine tinfoil phonograph, only to later discover that it was a replica made in the 1950s. Buying a tinfoil phonograph is not for the faint of heart, nor the uninformed.
What struck me about Anil's collection was the consistent excellent condition I found. There's not a dog in the bunch, and once he has everything arranged with horns in place, I wouldn't enter without an oxygen tank handy.
One thing I'd like to point out (which you won't see anywhere else on earth) is the photo of what appears to be two BC Graphophones on either side of an early film projector:
- Cameraphones.jpg (73.15 KiB) Viewed 2135 times
Those aren't really BC Graphophones, but 1908 Cameraphones professionally modified to provide synchronized sound to movies. In practice, two Cameraphones would be electrically connected to the film projector (a Powers No. 5 was included in one of the available outfits, and that's the model in the photo.) One Cameraphone would be playing a record while the operator cued up the next record on the other machine. A second operator kept the projector going by hand-cranking. The Cameraphone Company was incorporated in 1907 in New York City, and great things were expected of the system. Of course, things didn't work out that way; only two of the machines are known to exist, and they're both in the photo above!
George P.
Re: Phonospace (or, "Where's Waldo?)
Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2014 8:36 am
by fran604g
Anil, if you don't mind, what is the story of the Phonautograph? A very interesting collection!
Best,
Fran
Re: Phonospace (or, "Where's Waldo?)
Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2014 8:38 am
by fran604g
phonogfp wrote:Anil's collection is well worth a visit!
There's a lot more that doesn't show in the photos, but I don't want to spoil any potential surprises...
The reproduction tinfoil machines are nice, and a couple are downright scary. I told Anil that if I encountered the Bergmann reproduction in the wild, I would be convinced it was the real thing. The only way to tell would be to consult Rene's excellent book (still available I believe) on tinfoil phonographs and start counting thread pitch. Almost 20 years ago, a very advanced collector/dealer was fooled, and paid 5 figures for what he thought was a genuine tinfoil phonograph, only to later discover that it was a replica made in the 1950s. Buying a tinfoil phonograph is not for the faint of heart, nor the uninformed.
What struck me about Anil's collection was the consistent excellent condition I found. There's not a dog in the bunch, and once he has everything arranged with horns in place, I wouldn't enter without an oxygen tank handy.
One thing I'd like to point out (which you won't see anywhere else on earth) is the photo of what appears to be two BC Graphophones on either side of an early film projector:
Cameraphones.jpg
Those aren't really BC Graphophones, but 1908 Cameraphones professionally modified to provide synchronized sound to movies. In practice, two Cameraphones would be electrically connected to the film projector (a Powers No. 5 was included in one of the available outfits, and that's the model in the photo.) One Cameraphone would be playing a record while the operator cued up the next record on the other machine. A second operator kept the projector going by hand-cranking. The Cameraphone Company was incorporated in 1907 in New York City, and great things were expected of the system. Of course, things didn't work out that way; only two of the machines are known to exist, and they're both in the photo above!
George P.
Amazing! Thank you for the historical explanation, George.
This is why I keep coming back, the education is priceless!
Fran
Re: Phonospace (or, "Where's Waldo?)
Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2014 11:07 am
by ambrola
I just love that table with all the Tin Foil phonographs on it. That would be the holy grail if I was ever fortunate enough to have one. Great collection, and great advise from your friends.
Re: Phonospace (or, "Where's Waldo?)
Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2014 3:24 pm
by MicaMonster
Fran,
The phonautograph is a Norm Solgas replica.....grossly undersized as I believe it was created from estimations made from looking at drawings and pictures.
I was honored to get this particular one operating....yes, that is right....OPERATING. I replaced the boar hair on the diaphragm, and made this recording of my voice:
The angle of the boar hair is important, to properly capture the sine wave of the human voice. This was my first "graph"
Re: Phonospace (or, "Where's Waldo?)
Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2014 3:46 pm
by fran604g
MicaMonster wrote:Fran,
The phonautograph is a Norm Solgas replica.....grossly undersized as I believe it was created from estimations made from looking at drawings and pictures.
I was honored to get this particular one operating....yes, that is right....OPERATING. I replaced the boar hair on the diaphragm, and made this recording of my voice:
The angle of the boar hair is important, to properly capture the sine wave of the human voice. This was my first "graph"
Wyatt, that's really neat! I did a little searching earlier, just for fun, and found a link on the UCSB cylinder preservation and digitization webpage, of a group of researchers that managed to sonically reproduce some of Édouard-Léon Scott de Martinville's actual Phonautograms, claiming them to be, "
...the earliest clearly recognizable record of the human voice yet recovered."
Here's the link for anyone interested:
http://www.firstsounds.org/sounds/scott.php
Best,
Fran
Re: Phonospace (or, "Where's Waldo?)
Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2014 3:56 pm
by MicaMonster
Yes, those early sound clips are eerie and INCREDIBLE!
Well, making my own phonautogram was not a piece of cake. I had to trim a piece of paper to fit, then burn one of my oil lamps at high flame to create the black smoke and capture it on the paper as it was produced by the flame. Getting an even coating on the paper took some skill. And it took several tries to get everything in alignment. Using a small piece of tape, I wrapped the paper onto the mandrel. Grabbed the crank, then yelled my heart out into the barrel of the machine.. TESTING 1...2....3!!!! HELLO....HELLO!!!!!! MARY HAD A (..........well, you know the rest!)
Re: Phonospace (or, "Where's Waldo?)
Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2014 4:23 pm
by fran604g
Absolutely FASCINATING! When I read of the "lamp black" used for the recordings, I would never have thought of the way you did it. Now it makes perfect sense! It would be cool to reproduce your recording with the "virtual stylus" technique that was used for Scott's.
Fran
Re: Phonospace (or, "Where's Waldo?)
Posted: Thu Sep 04, 2014 2:45 am
by Lucius1958
phonogfp wrote:Anil's collection is well worth a visit!
There's a lot more that doesn't show in the photos, but I don't want to spoil any potential surprises...
The reproduction tinfoil machines are nice, and a couple are downright scary. I told Anil that if I encountered the Bergmann reproduction in the wild, I would be convinced it was the real thing. The only way to tell would be to consult Rene's excellent book (still available I believe) on tinfoil phonographs and start counting thread pitch. About 15 years ago, a very advanced collector/dealer was fooled, and paid 5 figures for what he thought was a genuine tinfoil phonograph, only to later discover that it was a replica made in the 1950s. Buying a tinfoil phonograph is not for the faint of heart, nor the uninformed.
What struck me about Anil's collection was the consistent excellent condition I found. There's not a dog in the bunch, and once he has everything arranged with horns in place, I wouldn't enter without an oxygen tank handy.
One thing I'd like to point out (which you won't see anywhere else on earth) is the photo of what appears to be two BC Graphophones on either side of an early film projector:
Cameraphones.jpg
Those aren't really BC Graphophones, but 1908 Cameraphones professionally modified to provide synchronized sound to movies. In practice, two Cameraphones would be electrically connected to the film projector (a Powers No. 5 was included in one of the available outfits, and that's the model in the photo.) One Cameraphone would be playing a record while the operator cued up the next record on the other machine. A second operator kept the projector going by hand-cranking. The Cameraphone Company was incorporated in 1907 in New York City, and great things were expected of the system. Of course, things didn't work out that way; only two of the machines are known to exist, and they're both in the photo above!
George P.
Interesting: from what I have seen in Hazelcorn's book, I had thought the "Cameraphone" used a 5 inch "Grand" cylinder…
Bill
Re: Phonospace (or, "Where's Waldo?)
Posted: Thu Sep 04, 2014 7:18 am
by phonogfp
Lucius1958 wrote:
Interesting: from what I have seen in Hazelcorn's book, I had thought the "Cameraphone" used a 5 inch "Grand" cylinder…
Bill
Me too, but in discussing this with a couple of people quite knowledgeable, there was some doubt about the legitimacy of the 5-inch example.
George P.