The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

Frankia wrote:That's just what I would have thought myself until I heard some original EMG Oversize horns and also those made from fibreglass. I've listened for hours to the originals and have listened for a year and a half to the fibreglass. If there's anything in it, the fibreglass may even be a slight improvement acoustically on the original papier applique. Certainly as good. I was most pleasantly surprised!

The EMGCR horns do indeed sound at least as good as the originals (I too have been lucky enough to spend periods of time listening to both). That's no surprise - they are even more dimensionally precise than the originals, and other things being equal, the material a horn is made from plays only a negligible part in the sound produced. There's been another thread on here recently discussing this - there are fine musical instruments successfully manufactured in unusual materials such as fibre glass and plastics, so these materials are equally suited to horns and waveguides. Vastly more important than the material's intrinsic properties are the mathematical curve, impedance matching with the soundbox, airtightness, and the surface reflectivity properties.

On the latter point, owners of EMG/Expert horns should be cautioned against varnishing - or at least, to use varnish giving the right surface properties (whatever exactly they are?!) - if the interior is too reflective, stray resonances result. I definitely wouldn't take the chance with either of mine.

The machine sold for GBP£1938.

Followers of this thread might be amused by this video of stage two.....The Kraken Wakes.....please do not have nightmares !

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jSJwScKPJyU

Here is the same record via a circular (fibre-glass) outlet---hope it sounds better !!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w6874ZyAqBA

Great to think that another of these magnificent creations will be saved from the knacker's yard.
And thanks indeed for sharing such a rare sight and sound with us!

Fantastic and I am so glad it is in the right hands. The fibre-glass horn sounds far better, but they always do. A fairer comparison would be a good original , the fibre-glass and the dilapidated one all in the same room on the same machine, one after the other.

Can't wait to hear it after restoration.

Amazing! I could almost hear the Boris Karloff voiceover...

Good luck with the restoration - that will be something to see, especially if you do indeed end up with a horn covered with new (unfaded) patterned paper as per the originals. All really exciting!

If this horn is successfully rebuilt it will be the restoration of the decade, and Graham is the man to do it.

emgcr wrote:Here is the same record via a circular (fibre-glass) outlet---hope it sounds better !!

Always deeply fascinating and enjoyable to compare like this for fun and interest, and thanks for posting both versions! But (re-stating the obvious) it's impossible to get more than a vague impression via camcorder microphones/compressed digital recording/Youtube/computer soundcard etc, plus in this case radically different acoustic environments these two are in. So I can hear quite a difference in "character" between them as Chunny does, but surely no actual conclusion can be drawn, almost by definition. It's the age-old thing with these wonderful beasts, you have to be there to "get it"! I'd dearly love to hear this one in the flesh. How does it seem, can you pinpoint any problems/deterioration to the sound quality which the microphone doesn't pick up?

Many thanks one and all for your kind and generous thoughts---much appreciated.

Andy, I agree comparisons are probably not much use objectively via YouTube but, actually in the room, it is hard to describe what the exact degredation of sound on the damaged horn is---certainly a clouding of clarity and definition can be heard. There also seems to be less base.


Chunny, we have similar thoughts and as you rightly suggest, I was lying in bed last night thinking I should make a fair comparison between instruments in the same room. I have therefore made a further video (link below) showing another fibre-glass horn in action in similar circumstances in the concrete-floored workshop. The video of the same record on the sitting room machine is perhaps altered for comparative purposes by carpets and different wall orientations, camera distances etc. We now need either your good self or Frank to bring a fine condition original here to get the real picture !


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OhbHYjaRzao

For posterity, here is the eBay photo of the machine that started this thread.

Clay