Needle holder on front-wind VV-50?

[estott]

I'd guess that reducing the amount of heavy cast metal in the horn was an effort to reduce weight - the 50 is quite a handful.

[FloridaClay]

I'd guess that reducing the amount of heavy cast metal in the horn was an effort to reduce weight - the 50 is quite a handful.

Yes. Mine, with metal, comes in at 21.8 lbs.

Clay

[Torjazzer]

I'd be interested in hearing a tone comparison between the wooden and metal horns. My late model sidewinder with wooden horn has a great sound.

[Silvertone]

I am still curious about why there were two distinct types of front wind VV-50s, the one with the full cast horn and the one with the wood reflector horn and different motor board as phonojim pointed out. That obviously wasn't a home made upgrade like the needle cup addition. So were these two different front-wind VV-50s being made at the same time or is the one I have a transitional version (considering all the newer side-wind VV-50s had the wood reflector horn).

According to the Victor parts list, the large metal horn was replaced by the shorter metal horn and wooden reflector at serial number 52800. Also, it shows serial number 84001 as the first with the needle holder. Of course we know from experience that the parts list was sometimes inexact, but at least this is a good place to start.

[Player-Tone]

According to the Victor parts list, the large metal horn was replaced by the shorter metal horn and wooden reflector at serial number 52800. Also, it shows serial number 84001 as the first with the needle holder. Of course we know from experience that the parts list was sometimes inexact, but at least this is a good place to start.

Thank you!

Is there any record that Victor sold the needle holders separate as an aftermarket addition for those who had the older VV-50s?

[Curt A]

Factoid: The VV-50s were sized to fit on the running board of a Model T...

[Silvertone]

Is there any record that Victor sold the needle holders separate as an aftermarket addition for those who had the older VV-50s?

These are not specifically mentioned in any advertising that I have seen, but of course a dealer could order any part that was still in stock at the factory, so it would have been easy to add a needle holder to a VV-50 that did not originally have one. A smart dealer would have kept a few of these in stock for his old customers.

[phonojim]

According to the Victor Data Book, there were 3 types of front wind VV 50s. The first model ran from July 1921 to July 1922, starting at s/n 501 and had no type letter. The second, or type A was sold from July 1922 until October 1922, starting at s/n 44700. The only difference between these two types was an unnoted change to the lid support. The third style, or type B was introduced in October 1922 at s/n 52800. This model, although still having the crank in front has several significant changes which make the motorboard/horn assembly non-interchangeable with the previous case. First, the horn was changed by removing the upward-pointing mouth and substituting a shaped wood block to direct the sound. Second, the winding gears were redesigned which necessitated a change in the location of the crank hole in the case. These use a VV-IV motor and this change occurs at the same time the same change was introduced in that machine. Third, the motor board supports were changed from brackets to Z-bar rails on each side of the cabinet. There is no mention of a record hold-down clamp or needle holder until the type C side-wind was introduced in November 1923 at serial number 84001. Apparently the motor was changed for the side wind machines, as the VDB lists the motor as a double spring unit but gives no further details. I have never seen a side-wind motor and would appreciate it if someone would post some information about it and include a picture or two if possible.

Jim

[Player-Tone]

Great information Jim, thanks!
Where could I get one of those Victor data books?

[gramophone78]

Great information Jim, thanks!
Where could I get one of those Victor data books?

Since it is put out by the same author of "Look For The Dog"....that would be the best place. I would strongly recommend getting both. They are a wealth of information and great reading for a newer collector.