The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

While modern thorns are my needle of choice for many records, and their reproduction leaves nothing to be desired from my point of view, I have had to stop using them on all my Victor records later than Victor Batwing, having had numerous mint records very badly affected both acoustically and visibly - sometimes by just one play from a thorn. In an earlier very similar thread to this, someone suggested it was because Victor had started to put vinyl in its mix fairly early on, and that sounded like a quite plausible explanation to me.
I've also had the first inch or so of a very rare early American 78 noticeably affected, soundwise and visibly, by a thorn. However I was watching at the time and stopped playing. It would have been a cheaper brand as far as I can recall, which again resonates with experience already shared.
Interestingly though, I have quite a number of the blue labelled twelve inch American Columbia Classical 78s and I can't recall thorns doing any damage to any of them.
None of my UK 78s have shown any reaction to thorns though, apart from the usual thing of worn records proving too much for the point etc.
Shame about the Victors though! A mint Victor glides through its performance soundlessly!

I've never seen any evidence of wear on Victor Orthophonic labels (and the earlier circle label pressings) using Peter Grey thorns, Duotone, or bamboo. A record with little or no wear (I use classical album sets) will play fine. Worn discs won't play as well.

I think the problem with the fiber needles is that they accumulate the grit from the record and begin to act like a grinder, where the steel needle bypasses the grit and is so the record is not affected.
Playing records is like a battle of shellac vs.steel. On some of my records the first few grooves are worn but the rest of the record plays OK.

estott wrote:I've never seen any evidence of wear on Victor Orthophonic labels (and the earlier circle label pressings) using Peter Grey thorns, Duotone, or bamboo. (I use classical album sets)

That really piques my interest. I also play the classical album sets, though I have other Victors as well, and I must have - say - ten or more Victors noticeably detrimentally affected after playing with thorn. It got to the point on a couple of the first ones I played, that the almost mint record soon began to actually wear out the thorn so that the needle couldn't get farther than quarter to half way through before going beyond the point of bearable listening. I seem to remember noticeable drag being produced on the motor also. I soon stopped persevering of course! I bought other copies of some records in the end. None of the Victors in question were rare thankfully. Also, it only happens to the later Victor label and has happened - I think - twice with much earlier American 78s.
The same has never happened with steel. So while I like, and would even recommend the thorns I use, it's steel for Victor Orthophonic, at least in my house!