The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

gramophone78 wrote:Jan, If I can just add.....these elbows are not easy to find. I was hoping to hear you say....."I have it". I would recommend keeping an eye on Ebay France,UK,Germany & Switzerland. I personally have only ever had one. I have not seen a loose one for sale. However, as I always say.....you never know.
As to painting the horn. Yes, Euro horns can be painted in nice colors (see pic). If you can get your hands on a brass horn....even better.
If this were my machine.......I would look for a clean horn/elbow. Your cost may be better by buying this way.
Funny, I tried to buy another elbow like you need along with two early elbows and brackets. However, the owner was not willing to sell.... .

Thanks, I'll keep an eye on those sites. The Parlophone machine I have is really a better quality machine. I thought this one would be similar but it's definitely a cheaper machine. I still think it will look nice when I get it finished and where are you going to see another "Radium" machine?

In general "Swissie" horns are actually fairly good quality. Indeed some continental horns are much better than Victor horns. The gauge of metal varies tremendously though. It's not unusual to find French, German and Swiss horns that are similar to a Victor / HMV horn in terms of thickness and quality.

As for colouring, the continental horns have no real match. Certainly with Pathé and some German makers, it was a case of anything goes. Is there a colour known to man that Pathé didn't paint a horn? German horns tend to be very bright and colourful BUT they are also very difficult to successfully replicate with todays colour palettes.

You might be able to fabricate an angular but functional substitute from pipe and sheet metal, a la Crapophone.

Steve wrote:In general "Swissie" horns are actually fairly good quality. Indeed some continental horns are much better than Victor horns. The gauge of metal varies tremendously though. It's not unusual to find French, German and Swiss horns that are similar to a Victor / HMV horn in terms of thickness and quality.

As for colouring, the continental horns have no real match. Certainly with Pathé and some German makers, it was a case of anything goes. Is there a colour known to man that Pathé didn't paint a horn? German horns tend to be very bright and colourful BUT they are also very difficult to successfully replicate with todays colour palettes.

The horn on my Parlophone is just as thick and equal quality when compared to my Victor or Edison horns and I like the embossed egg and feather design. I could probably find a better quaility horn for this machine but feel I need to keep this horn with it since it probably is the one that is original to it. What do you think?

estott wrote:You might be able to fabricate an angular but functional substitute from pipe and sheet metal, a la Crapophone.

Maybe I will be able to start with a repro horn elbow and modify it to work until I find an original?

phonogal wrote:

estott wrote:You might be able to fabricate an angular but functional substitute from pipe and sheet metal, a la Crapophone.

Maybe I will be able to start with a repro horn elbow and modify it to work until I find an original?

That may be a good idea. They were made in two parts. A ring in the large end holds it all together. By the way, your horn may have been the one that was with the machine. However, these machine's were available (when new) with many horn opinions as up-grades. Therefore, there is no right or wrong.
The paint used on Swiss/German horns was not "gloss". Mainly flat or at best a semi-gloss. These were sprayed and lots a "shading" was used.
I personally have never seen a good "modern" restore that looks as good as the original.
Regarding your current horn........is the outside just without paint or is it brass....???. Here is a pic to show you how some were shaded and gold pin strips were also used.

gramophone78 wrote: By the way, your horn may have been the one that was with the machine. However, these machine's were available (when new) with many horn opinions as up-grades. Therefore, there is no right or wrong.
The paint used on Swiss/German horns was not "gloss". Mainly flat or at best a semi-gloss. These were sprayed and lots a "shading" was used.
I personally have never seen a good "modern" restore that looks as good as the original.
Regarding your current horn........is the outside just without paint or is it brass....???. Here is a pic to show you how some were shaded and gold pin strips were also used.

The outside of the horn is actually a gold/brass colored paint and that appears to be original to the horn as when I scratch it the metal is visable. Thank you for the picture.

Jan, To answer your question about the reproducer, here is my suggestion. Since this is an unmarked machine, You can free-lance a little. My guess this machine used a generic reproducer with a mica diaphragm. I'm sure you can find one on ebay, shows, Forum, etc. Make sure the diameter of the reproducer fitting is the same as the arm fitting. I may have one in my parts bin.
Harvey Kravitz

After looking at the original elbow type, it occurred to me that you might be able to obtain a repro Victor elbow and modify it with the addition of a tube that would fit your back bracket... it would be a better choice than an angular crapo-phone elbow.

Phonofreak wrote:Jan, To answer your question about the reproducer, here is my suggestion. Since this is an unmarked machine, You can free-lance a little. My guess this machine used a generic reproducer with a mica diaphragm. I'm sure you can find one on ebay, shows, Forum, etc. Make sure the diameter of the reproducer fitting is the same as the arm fitting. I may have one in my parts bin.
Harvey Kravitz

Thanks Harvey. Let me know if you have something.