The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

You might try this:
Take the feed screw and half nut arm off and clean thoroughly. Then, reinstall and set the half nut pressure so that it just tracks on the feed screw. If the carriage is not moving properly, the stylus will travel with the record and end up to one side of the limit guide.

oldphonographsteve wrote:

Edisone wrote: I would check to see that your homemade link is *exactly* the correct length. Eric Reiss says it should be 5/16" , inside the loops. Incorrect gasket thickness will also cause problems; these should be .031" (1/32"), also according to Reiss.

I did actually make sure of that, it is not exact in length, but is very close. Also, in regards to the gaskets, the circular screw that holds the diaphragm in place as well as the gaskets seems to be slightly uneven in the screw thread. Could that be causing this?

I think it wouldn't hurt to see whether seating the compression ring evenly might improve the situation.

Also - do you know whether the hinge block is original? A sub-standard restoration might have resulted in the screw being drilled out incorrectly, which could explain the weight being out of level…

Bill

Lucius1958 wrote: I think it wouldn't hurt to see whether seating the compression ring evenly might improve the situation.

Also - do you know whether the hinge block is original? A sub-standard restoration might have resulted in the screw being drilled out incorrectly, which could explain the weight being out of level…

Bill

I do not know whether the hinge block is original, but there's a safe bet that it is original, because there were original gaskets and a mica diaphragm that came with it when I first got the Edison Standard. Though there does seem to be something odd about it, I think I'll get a different hinge block and see if there is any change.

It's possible that either the hinge block to body screw or the cross pin that holds the weight to the hinge block is very slightly bent. It is also possible that the limit loop is deformed in some way which could throw the weight to the side when the stylus contacts the record. Also, is the limit pin straight? Do all hinge and pivot points have complete freedom of movement? If this reproducer has never been rebuilt, that in itself could be the problem. You could have things that don't move as freely as they should because they have never been cleaned. Anything that is bent can be carefully straightened. On a side note, when I play cylinders I try to let the stylus down in the silent grooves wherever possible which will automatically preclude some of the types of problems from happening.

Jim

phonojim wrote:It's possible that either the hinge block to body screw or the cross pin that holds the weight to the hinge block is very slightly bent. It is also possible that the limit loop is deformed in some way which could throw the weight to the side when the stylus contacts the record. Also, is the limit pin straight? Do all hinge and pivot points have complete freedom of movement? If this reproducer has never been rebuilt, that in itself could be the problem. You could have things that don't move as freely as they should because they have never been cleaned. Anything that is bent can be carefully straightened. On a side note, when I play cylinders I try to let the stylus down in the silent grooves wherever possible which will automatically preclude some of the types of problems from happening.

Jim

The reproducer has been cleaned, and all joints move freely. The hinge block seems to be bent a little forwards. If anything else was bent, it would be very slight.

A couple more things to check. 1. Be sure the weight assembly can wag side to side, and up/down freely. Rarely do they tighten up, but if it does it could contribute to your problem. 2. Be sure the pin inside the limit loop can move about vertically and horizontally without the needle bar bottoming, or coming into contact with any part of the weight assembly. Lower the needle to the playing position and observe the needle. Be sure the needle end is not jammed against the weight assembly. Conversely, check the other end of the needle bar and be sure it is not contacting either the record or the weight assembly. If either of these occurs, the length of the link wire is wrong. Cheers, Russie Ofria

Well, here's my suggestion of an experiment
which I think you should try.

I'll add that you should only try this
experiment after having looked thoroughly into
all issues pointed out here be everyone else.

It's really great to see everyone's ideas
all concentrated into one spot here, about
all conceivable things that can go wrong
with an Edison cylinder reproducer when it
tends to skate left, as yours does.

Anyway, if you try everything else and still
nothing works, you'll be in the same situation
I was in, with one of my model C reproducers.

Tear off a tiny corner of a soft paper towel.
You only need maybe about a .25 inch square
of it to start with. Fold it over once or
twice, and then take something soft like a
flat toothpick, and gently wedge the folded
paper towel piece under the weight, at the back, right next to the hinge block.

Try it first on the side which, if wedged,
would tend to push the weight back parallel
again, if it's slightly off kilter.

This is a very subtle thing. Not much force
is involved. Try it, then set the stylus
down on a smooth part of a cylinder and watch
what happens.

If it still skates left, take the paper towel
out and put it on the other side of the hinge
block, tipping the weight the other way.

I ended up doing that, and with the tiny
piece of paper towel very gently wedged in
on one side, the reproducer works properly.

It's a totally non-destructive experiment.
It does not hurt anything, it only applies
a most gentle force on the weight.

It's just a damper, of sorts.

What the heck, might as well try it.

Chuck

Well, it appears that I accidentally fixed the issue myself!
I noticed the stylus linkage was loose, so I curled the edges around more to prevent the link from coming off the stylus bar. When I went back to playing a cylinder, the fishtail weight did not sway to the left when I set down the stylus. It appears that the issue may have been the looseness of the linkage, somehow after I fixed the linkage it is playing correctly, now I only sways to the left if I set down the reproducer on the beveled edge, if there is a crack, or an out of round indestructible cylinder.

My last questions are:
1. Even if the limit pin is touching the limit loop, is it normal for the reproducer to not follow the grooves properly?
2.Can an uneven table surface effect this happening too?

The limit pin & loop should not touch each other while a record is being played; if they DO touch, the groove cannot be followed correctly.

I said it was your homemade link; it was "loose" because it was the wrong length.

Good to hear that you found the trouble, fixed
it, and that now it's working right.

Chalk one up for Edisone, for correctly
identifying the problem.

I will just add here, that something needs
to be explained.

In a correctly working Edison reproducer,
the limit pin should be riding somewhere near
the center of the limit loop.

Look at the shape of the limit loop.
It is a rectangle, with the bottom corners
cut off. It looks a bit like an upside-down
little house, with the roof peak facing down.

That angle with the point on the bottom of
the limit loop is to initially center the
weight and stylus as it is set down on the
cylinder. It is an automatic pre-centering
device.

Once on the record, with the carriage arm
all the way down, the limit pin picks up out
of that bottom point and rides up close to
the center of the loop.

Then, as the feedscrew drives the carriage
to the right, if everything works properly,
the limit pin will continue to be in the center of the loop.

If you are playing a shrunken celluloid
cylinder, sometimes you'll notice the limit
pin riding ever-closer to the left side, because the shrunken groove-pitch of the record has become less distance than it was
before the record shrank.

But, one fundamental concept that needs to
be understood in order to keep these machines
in proper working order is that the limit
pin is supposed to ride freely, never contacting the limit loop while playing a
cylinder. All bets are off as soon as the pin
touches the loop, anywhere.

The only time they are supposed to touch, is
when the stylus is up off of the record.

Chuck