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The bell is zinc, and they often don't age well.

George P.

The bell is made out of zinc. Sorry George, I didn't see your post on the third page.

Wes

phonogfp wrote:The bell is zinc, and they often don't age well.

George P.

George, out of curiosity should I encounter one, it there a way to restore or replace these bells properly that is cost effective?

Clay

Naturally George and Wes are correct in stating the bell is zinc. Some say "pewter". To give you an idea how soft the metal is......I was able to straighten (how you see it) by hand and nothing more. As for construction....the bell is crimped on "over" the steel funnel. The brass color you see is a gold paint stripe. The bell was painted black and had an outer gold paint stripe.
So, I guess technically one could remove this bell and have another reattached to the steel cone body...??.

The way I looked at it is....since the original owner had upgraded by spending $3 more for the EJR concert....why not also upgrade the horn to a B&B...??. It was a period option.

gramophone78 wrote:Naturally George and Wes are correct in stating the bell is zinc. Some say "pewter". To give you an idea how soft the metal is......I was able to straighten (how you see it) by hand and nothing more. As for construction....the bell is crimped on "over" the steel funnel. The brass color you see is a gold paint stripe. The bell was painted black and had an outer gold paint stripe.
So, I guess technically one could remove this bell and have another reattached to the steel cone body...??.

I way I looked at it is....since the original owner had upgraded by spending $3 more for the EJR concert....why not also upgrade the horn to a B&B...??. It was a period option.

Personally I have no issue at all with using a period aftermarket horn. Just as "authentic" as using one that came from the machine maker's factory as far as I am concerned. At the moment I am having a debate with myself about using the original horn on an Edison Standard or using a contemporary Tea Tray Co. black and brass one, as I like them both. I may just wind up periodically switching them out for variety. And you will find a couple of modern reproduction horns at my house too, bought when getting originals was just not in my budgetary cards.

As to the horn on your machine, I was just curious about the restorability of zinc bells in general as I have not yet run into one personally.

I have run into the zinc issue before in another context. Some early disc music box discs were made of zinc and they are a problem as the projections from them that turn the star wheels tend to break off due to the softness of the zinc.

FloridaClay wrote:

phonogfp wrote:The bell is zinc, and they often don't age well.

George P.

George, out of curiosity should I encounter one, it there a way to restore or replace these bells properly that is cost effective?

Clay

Not to my knowledge. Of course, "cost effective" is a subjective term!

George P.

FloridaClay wrote:

gramophone78 wrote:Naturally George and Wes are correct in stating the bell is zinc. Some say "pewter". To give you an idea how soft the metal is......I was able to straighten (how you see it) by hand and nothing more. As for construction....the bell is crimped on "over" the steel funnel. The brass color you see is a gold paint stripe. The bell was painted black and had an outer gold paint stripe.
So, I guess technically one could remove this bell and have another reattached to the steel cone body...??.

I way I looked at it is....since the original owner had upgraded by spending $3 more for the EJR concert....why not also upgrade the horn to a B&B...??. It was a period option.

Personally I have no issue at all with using a period aftermarket horn. Just as "authentic" as using one that came from the machine maker's factory as far as I am concerned. At the moment I am having a debate with myself about using the original horn on an Edison Standard or using a contemporary Tea Tray Co. black and brass one, as I like them both. I may just wind up periodically switching them out for variety. And you will find a couple of modern reproduction horns at my house too, bought when getting originals was just not in my budgetary cards.

As to the horn on your machine, I was just curious about the restorability of zinc bells in general as I have not yet run into one personally.

I have run into the zinc issue before in another context. Some early disc music box discs were made of zinc and they are a problem as the projections from them that turn the star wheels tend to break off due to the softness of the zinc.

Clay, I may have misunderstood you. Are you thinking the B&B horn was "after market"??.If so, that is incorrect. The zinc horn was the base horn available with the machine at $12 in 1901. However, like the reproducer, the customer could (at extra cost) upgrade their machine from Victor when ordering. The reproducer you see on this machine was an addition $3 and this B&B horn.... Victor charged another $3. So, this machine would have had (as it sits now) an $18 price tag when it left Johnson's factory.
This is why I see no harm nor foul in using my spare B&B Victor horn. I'm just thankful I had a spare collecting dust.
Otherwise, I would be leaving the zinc horn right where it was... . I will still keep the horn with the machine anyway... .

As to metal spinning. A wood mold has to be made on a lathe first. This mold must be exact shape and size as the piece of metal you want spun. It is this wood mold that is used to push the metal into shape while the metal is spinning and stretching;regardless what metal is used.
Most metal spinners charge a minimum of $300 to just make the mold. Then the time to spin,etc...

I would estimate the cost of having a cone spun and reattached to the cone.....$500-$600.
This does not include painting. Also, spinners dressing machine's (for edge rolling and attaching) are "not" quite the same as back then.

The other issue with certain metals is the thickness now available. I had an aluminum cone spun for a friend and the original thickness can no longer be found. It was so thin. My friend had to settle with a few thousands thicker.

Ah, OK. Thanks for the clarification. One reason I love this board is that I learn something almost every day.

Clay

I am currently working on a zinc bell horn for my Victor R. It had a few tears in it, not as bad as the horn here, but bad enough that it had to be fixed. I also found the metal so soft that you can do most of the forming with the fingers, you must be careful not to overdo it and add another tear. I experimented with the tears, filled a couple with JB-Weld and the other two with regular solder. Both worked and I like the solder better for very close tears. For big gaps like in the horn in this thread I think that JB-Weld should be able to do the job. Of course it will never be an original zinc bell again, but I think you should be able to fix the tears and gaps. To me it beats the alternative of throwing the horn away. Fix it with the clear tape on the outside and then fill the gaps with JB-Weld from the other side. Let it cure over night, remove the tape and see if you have to do more filling from the outside as well. Once everything is cured you can sand it smooth and paint it. If you don't want to do it, please send it to me rather than throwing it in the trash.

Andreas

That is a touching post from Raphael regarding contributing to the Salvation Army! Made my day to read that! This entire tread has been a fascinating read- you learn so much. The thrill of finding that treasure is something that all collectors dream about. The 'clean-up' of the machine has been remarkable-thanks for sharing!

Dave