The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

My opinion of any recorder weight assembly which
has the diaphragm mounted to it probably needs the
diaphragm removed so as to allow access inside
to clean all the dirt out.

Most often these old recorders have some amount
of wax dust and other dirt lodged between the diaphragm
and the top inside of the chamber. Keep in mind that
the chamber over the diaphragm is only .018 or .019
inches tall, being set by the thickness of the gasket.

Add to that the fact that most of these old recorders
also need the beeswax bead around the diaphragm reworked
anyway.

So, it's really just about as easy to simply disassemble
the whole works, then clean it all up and start fresh.

Driving the hinge pivot pin in and out, and especially
getting it back in there so that the weight swings
freely, but with absolutely no side-play can be
tricky and it takes time.

Usually when the pin is installed, the weight will
either bind or have too much side play. Turning
the pin a few degrees at a time and reassembling
will usually result in finding the correct fit.

I use a small drillpress vise in which I put some
.0625 inch thick soft aluminum angles so as to
protect the recorder body as it is clamped in.

Place the recorder body in the vise tube-up as it
would be when installed in the phonograph.
Use the vise to grab the smaller diameter of the
body just below the larger diameter lip. The body
can be grasped firmly this way with the lip resting
on the tops of the vise jaws. That way, the pin can be
gently tapped in and out using the appropriate
diameter of brass or steel wire to push it while
tapping gently with a very small ballpeen hammer.

The key idea here is to be gentle and also careful
to use tools which will not mark or scratch the
original Edison parts. Use only enough force to
drive the pin out. If it sticks or binds, stop and
think it over before applying any more force.

Be careful and slow.

Using a wire which is slightly smaller than the
pivot pin diameter allows the pin to be pushed
after it recedes into the hole in the recorder body.

I'd be very wary of trying to fit a different
weight to a recorder body than the one it left the
factory with. Changing those sets around is really
asking for trouble as fas as either binding the weight
or ending up with free-swinging but with a bunch
of side-play. Those sets were fit up at the factory.

The first ingredient to rebuilding one of these recorders is to get the weight swinging freely
with no side play. Also have the sliding tube
sliding very very freely. Polish the inside of
the sound tube. Once this whole assembly is
working freely, and is all cleaned up, then it is
time to put in the bottom gasket and set the diaphragm
in.

If a diaphragm can be used that already has the
stylus holder firmly cemented to it, that might work
ok. But I have not seen one yet which has not
needed to be reglued. Some of those copper stylus
holders are anchored to the diaphragm with 2 tiny
copper tabs which poke through the diaphragm and are
bent down on the other side.

Watch for that if you try to get one apart. Those
with the tabs need to have the tabs bent up in order
to safely take it apart, otherwise a big hole will
be torn in the diaphragm.

It all makes sense after you do the first few
recorders. Those first few are a learning experience
though.

Chuck

Yeah, my recorder came with the tabs on the copper part. Based on what you have said, I may end up simply taking the diaphragm and gasket (?) from the new weight. If it has a hole for the tabs, I will just mount my bar and stylus, and if not, then I will have to mount my stylus in that bar (unless it's possible to just flatten the tabs on mine and glue the works down). As for the pin, I thought it was a screw, since there seems to be a head with a slot at one end. That said, I have been avoiding messing with it too much until I have the necessary parts at hand. I could be, and indeed I expect to be, wrong.

Can somebody post a link to the stratena glue? My searches only return old business cards.

Well if that pivot pin has a slot in the end then
maybe it really is a screw! I've never yet seen one which is threaded, all of the ones I've seen are smooth
pins pressed in.

But I would not discount the possibility of a screw
threaded pin being used at some point along the way.
Just because I've not seen one yet does not mean they
don't exist! Inspect it very closely using magnification to decide if it's really a threaded pin or a smooth one.

Not sure what to make of your search for the Stratena
glue on Ebay. I've always just typed in the search
"Stratena" or "Stratena Glue" on Ebay and it comes
right up.

I hope that Peter Wall still is making the stuff!
I was chatting with him on the phone one night a few
years ago and he was telling me how he uses boric
acid and alcohol while making it. He was saying he
used some vodka for the alcohol, and he ended up
drinking a good portion of it while making a batch
of the glue!

If the Ebay search still turns up nothing, then I'll
have to get in touch with him to see what's up.

Chuck

Nothing relevant in the first 4 pages of a google search...

Did you try searching Ebay?
Try "stratena" and/or "stratena glue"

If nothing comes up, we need to find Peter Wall's
Ebay username to contact him.

I seem to remember it as "Gramophile" or some such
name as that. He also is quite well known for
rebuilding Orthophonic Victrola reproducers.
He sometimes has that rebuilding service advertised on
ebay. If you can figure out how to contact him, you
can ask him about the stratena. He probably has some
of it around, maybe just none up on Ebay right now.

But anyway try the search again, then if nothing,
see if you can find him on ebay.

Anyone else out there know what Peter Wall's Ebay
username is?

If the stratena really is not available, I have used
beeswax to mount a stylus holder to a mica recorder
diaphragm a few times and it holds well and works great.

Just use a tweezers to grab the copper holder which has the stylus mounted in it. Hold it over an alcohol flame briefly to warm it up.
Then rub it over some beeswax to coat the bottom
with melted wax then quickly set it down on the
diaphragm in position. The beeswax should ooze out
around the edges. Wait a good long while for it
to set up. I did a couple of recorders that way
before I got the stratena. They still work well.

Of course, there are other glues, but none that
come loose easily later if you need to ever take it
apart again.

I've used both superglue and Weldwood contact
cement on some early recorder rebuilds done back in
1980. Those 2 recorders are still working well
but that glue will be very difficult to ever get loose
again when the time comes in another 100 years or so.

Some future collector will get to cuss that last guy
who used the wrong kind of glue way back then...

Beeswax comes loose very easily with a gentle small
bit of heat.

There's also shellac. Someone else mentioned that
some recorder cutter holders are cemented down
to the diaphragm with shellac. George Vollema
told me about dissolving flake shellac in denatured
alcohol until it can't hold any more.

This saturated solution of shellac in alcohol then
can be used as a liquid glue which sets up as hard
shellac after the alcohol evaporates. I made some
of that stuff and did a few tests with it and it
does seem to work fine. But that was right about
the same time that the stratena glue arrived so I've
still not used the alcohol/shellac solution to
put together a recorder. But I needed to mention it
here since you are looking for all available workable
options right now.

Chuck

I went through this thread again since my supplies for repairing the recorder are arriving, and I am still absolutely floored by the wealth of knowledge here (as well as the fact that my humble thread garnered interest from two of the three cylindersmiths on this Earth!). I have everything I need now, I think. I got shellac because Peter's stratena glue is unavailable, got some beeswax, gaskets, and I will use the diaphragm from that spare weight I bought a while back from APSCO. I'll keep y'all posted.

Just a heads up...

If you post a video of yourself shouting 'Mary had a little lamb' into your recorder when you're done,
I'll be thoroughly disappointed in you.

Assuming you're taking requests, I'd like to hear you belt out 'It's Raining Men' from The Weather Girls.
Now THAT cylinder would be a keeper, and definitely one you'd want your great grandchildren to stumble across
after you're gone.

Too bad about the stratena not being available.

But you do have beeswax and shellac and both of those
can be used to mount the holder to the diaphragm.

As far as subject matter to belt out for testing the
newly fixed recorder, how about some Uncle Josh?

"This here is that dang old Edison recorder I was
working on for the last several days and Nancy says
the language I used was just shameful!"

As soon as I get blanks, I will make sure to do that, lol.

So I have good news and bad news:

The good news is that the recorder is done, and the weight and sliding tube move freely without side play.

The bad news, I thought that the diaphragm I was gonna use was mica, but the way it shattered while I was cleaning it means it was glass. Sigh. Luckily, I had some spare mica diaphragms (split to a similar thickness as the original) lying about, however there was no way to avoid the hole that the needle bar hooked through. So, I put that hole in the center of the "new" recorder diaphragm and covered it with shellac when I placed the stylus holder.

I feel like I probably used too much wax around the edges but I will find out when I test it. As has been said, this first recorder was definitely a learning experience and I expect to adjust and improve it several times.