The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

Starkton wrote:

phonogfp wrote:

gramophone78 wrote: I think we need to look at the first few months of 1904 and not 1904-05.

Maybe George has some further information....??. Although, I don't this era is his specialty... .

Since the first Victor VI wasn't shipped until November 1904, that wouldn't seem helpful.

George P.

gramophone78 wrote: I think we need to look at the last few months of 1904 and not 1904-05.

Can I refine my above answer also? We should admit own mistakes in the discussion, otherwise we are exposing ourselves to ridicule.

Stephan, I was not trying to ridicule you at all. We all make mistakes while typing.

I had expressed my typo when I replied to George....
"George, thanks for the information. I meant to write "the last few months of 1904" My typo.. ".

I was just trying to narrow down the time frame in question. Again, only because of Robert's statement "introduction".

Here is my theory and again, I could very wrong.

I see no evidence of a horn "selection" in any introductory era ephemera (to date). I do see a "selection" of three reproducers being offered.

We know that the #10 was sold separately for $10. We also know that both the gold Concert & Exhibition were sold separately for $5.

If we do the math and add the reproducer that costs $5 more to a $100 machine.....we get $105.

Unless anyone can find a replacement item that adds the same way......I can't.

phonogfp wrote:

gramophone78 wrote:
However, in keeping with the topic of the $105 price and using your theory because of the addition of the mache horn .....What horn was then supplied with the early Vic.6 with the $100 price....?? .

My presumption (and that's all it is at this point) is that the earliest Victor VI with the $105.00 price was originally equipped with the fiber horn. As for the later Victor VI examples that sold for $100.00, I've shown the horn equipment for them above (except for the 24B).

George P.

George, with all due respect. We are not discussing the later Vic.VI. We know that different horns were offered at a later dates. However, we show the $100 price was also offered at the early date.

So, the question is....were all early Vic.6's priced at $105 because they were equipped with the mache horn as it was the only horn offered...??.

According to Robert the introductory price was $100 ($105 with #10).

gramophone78 wrote: George, with all due respect. We are not discussing the later Vic.VI. We know that different horns were offered at a later dates. However, we show the $100 price was also offered at the early date.

So, the question is....were all early Vic.6's priced at $105 as they were equipped with the mache horn...??.

According to Robert the introductory price was $100 ($105 with #10).

Again, I believe all the earliest Victor VI were priced at $105.00 and equipped with a fiber horn. I believe this was the case for only a very short time - possibly weeks. I have not seen period documentation from late 1904 showing an introductory price of $100.00, but I would be grateful to be educated on that point.

I understand that others may have a different view. My mind is wide open, but I'm a slave to documentary evidence.

George P.

Well, now here is a early Victor catalog page showing a Vic.6 with mache horn at $100. However, it also shows the same selection of reproducers and a #10 on the machine. Note, the three reproducers are also sold separately at $10,$5 and $5.Just like the other catalogs.

The exact date I have found for the Vic.6 release was November 23 1904 (source the Data Book).

Still does not explain the $105 price.... .

That's fantastic! A Victor VI with fiber horn and No.10 sound box for $100.00. Well, that shoots my theory out the window. So what gives with that $105.00 price? Canadian price?

Thanks for posting this, Wayne. Is the catalog dated?

George P.

phonogfp wrote:That's fantastic! A Victor VI with fiber horn and No.10 sound box for $100.00. Well, that shoots my theory out the window. So what gives with that $105.00 price? Canadian price?

Thanks for posting this, Wayne. Is the catalog dated?

George P.

No!, no date... . My machine is from the US. So, that rules out Canadian... .

Does, "Prices slightly higher in the west" apply?

EarlH wrote:Does, "Prices slightly higher in the west" apply?

Since my machine came out of NY....I don't think so... . Even if it was from a Western dealer. A US Victor Catalog is a US Victor Catalog.... .

That re-sale label is kind of interesting. My Dad's step grandmother owned the Victor dealership here in the town I live in and her son Bill lived to be almost 100 and died in the 1980's. Bill told me that his mother RARELY sold a machine they took in on trade and that Victor really didn't like them doing that anyway. It made much more sense to sell something new rather than flood the market with used stuff. They also had pretty tight licensing agreements before that lawsuit in 1917 and so I suppose that's where some of this stuff fits in. Dad and Bill both would laugh about all the record players they took in on trade once radio got going big.

My Dad said when he was a kid he helped bust up the cabinets and put them in the furnace to heat the store with and all the brass & iron went to the junk yard. Maybe that thing was sent back to the factory to be re-conditioned. Estey did that with organs. Bill told me that they did that sometimes with a decent chapel organ that came in on trade. It makes sense with the higher end stuff that they might do that. If they had the money to buy a VI they probably had the money to get a XVI when they decided they wanted to upgrade. And your machine wasn't very old it looks like, when that happened.

Well, George & Stephan......this gets interesting now..... . No, I did not photo shop this... .