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Dear Graham,

What wonderful information and thanks once more! I suspect that this is a late Xa for all the reasons you mention, and I can see on pages 6-7 of the catalogue from ~1934 (which Chunny sent me in PDF form, and with his permission I have put up on my website - http://metastudies.net/pmwiki/pmwiki.ph ... 4Catalogue) the Xa was by then being sold as a cheaper alternative to the Xb with a reduced price.

Perhaps for export to Australia the purchaser chose the smaller horn in part for its cheaper price, and also perhaps for convenience of shipping? I see he/she had to pay an extra 1 pds for the 'export' collar so perhaps was feeling even more inclined to a little economy. The reduced price of 27 pds was by now about a 20% discount. But he/she may simply have chosen the smaller profile for a smaller room. As the catalogue says "For smaller rooms and smaller purses it makes a great appeal."(p. 6) But if, as the catalogue suggests, the Xa was still being made in parallel with the Xb it may not be a surprise that the company chose to use the same cabinet and innards for the two models and with the different horn final diameter representing the key (or only?) difference between the two models.

I agree that there is not any physical evidence that I can see that the reproducer does not remain in original condition. It may have been as simple as the purchaser being conservative about new-fangled aluminium diaphragms. The choice of the housing for a steel needle may well have been an option. The catalogue (p. 9) invites the purchaser of the 4-spring sound-box (for 3 pds 10s) to state on ordering "whether the soundbox will be required for use with steel or fibre needles". Of course that may simply be for purposes of tuning, and you may have more information on that? Thanks very much for offering to keep an eye out for a second reproducer should one emerge. I do recognise the difficulty of finding one, but would be keen if one does come up. So thanks again!

As for doing anything much to the horn - we are in fact in violent agreement! Your cautionary tale about the effects of painting one only adds to that sense. However I am in contact with two leading materials conservation centres. The first is the Powerhouse Museum in Sydney and its staff who I have met and corresponded with on numerous occasions about the preservation and restoration of antique calculators. The second is the Grimwade Centre for Cultural Materials Conservation at the University of Melbourne (where I am a Professor) and whose Director is a friend and who have already assisted me on the conservation of a C17 book - the first book of logarithmic tables to appear in Europe. So I have already written to ask her whether she has any insights on conservation of the horn. But - as you say - nothing is actually required from the point of view of longevity but to keep it dry and dusted, and I would be loathe to do anything that was either heavy handed or irreversible. My inclination is to leave good enough alone.

In the meantime I am awaiting the rubber part from Chunny for the reproducer collar and once that is fitted I will be ready to try recording the gramophone in actual work. I will let you all know when that recording is available.

So thanks once more. I have learned a lot about my Xa, and not the least its firm identification, for which I am profoundly grateful. I will of course await any further insights with great interest, including anything that may come from Frank. If Frank knows anything of the way in which the papier applique was constructed (in particular the glues that were used and the printing method for the paper covering of the horn), or of course the mystery of the reproducer, that would of course be interesting. And of course if there is any documentation anywhere on overseas orders (well those to Australia of course) that would also be of great interest in helping me establish more on provenance.

Warm good wishes as always,

Jim

The other day a collector in California informed me that pictures of my EMG Mark IX horn was circulating on the forum and that there was concern of it's authenticity. I had purchased the machine from this fellow and he felt the story needed to be told. He was given some limited history on the machine which is mentioned below.

When I first saw the Model IX it was fresh from being stored in an abandoned automobile, a van I believe, with the two piece horn still on the machine. It was clear that moisture had taken a toll on the paper mache and the bell had collapsed such that it was facing down, resting on the lid of the machine! My friend bought it with the hope of finding someone to restore it but as fate would have it he scored an Oversize X needing virtually nothing freeing up the IX for someone more daring, that being me.

The case was weathered as well and was of late production with a small Garrard electric motor installed. Taking pity on the disgraced machine I purchased it and brought it home to much disapproval from my other half.

After studying the damage and determining that the bell down to it's wooden flange was solid I could see the repair would be to the boot side. The blessing of the project was the two piece construction of the Export style. This was accomplished using two round wooden flanges, one on the bell side and the other on the boot side that were then bolted together. Edwin Ginn didn't mince words over his displeasure of the design. From my standpoint this made the boot side small enough to work with on my kitchen counter so I happily embraced the love knot that hallmarks export horns.

I had already acquired the James book and owned a Model X with a conventional model IX horn so was familiar with the lore of how the horns were constructed. The damaged horn area revealed late 1930s English newspaper print featuring Princess Elizabeth.

Remembering paper mache projects from school I devised a sub structure of wooden craft sticks (popsicle style) and construction paper strips held together with water based craft glue. This formed sufficient rigidity and I soon had a lumpy but structurally sound boot again. To build up and level the surface I used the pulpy paper of grocery store shopping bags inside and out. The final smoothing step before the decorative paper was from my hometown newspaper which still used the old style newsprint paper, much thicker than the modern slick type used today. Future owners will scratch their heads when finding a layer of the Buhl Herald extolling virtues of farm living in Southern Idaho mingling with tales of pre war England!

One of the pictures posted on the forum shows the freshly patched horn in my dinning room in California. The patch is clearly visible. The next step was finding a paper for the top layer and thanks to the Internet that was easy. The paper I chose, which is seen in the photo of the horn in shipping mode, was from India which seemed fitting for something from the United Kingdom. The green felt gasket was original and still sound. For that reason I saved and reused it.

Again, the two piece construction, and I swear it's genuine, made the daunting repair so much easier and I still wonder how they papered the insides of the standard IX and larger X horns.

I'm sure plenty of people here will feel I could have repaired it differently, but had they seen the before state they might also say it wasn't salvageable. Here in the States beggar's can't be choosers so when anything EMG or Ginn shows up we need to make the best of it no matter how forlorn the machine may appear.

One statement I read questioning the need to split a IX horn since it wasn't of huge size needs to be answered. Anyone with a model IX and the correct horn will realize that while they are dwarfed by their Oversize cousins, they are still large enough to present difficulty in moving. They will not fit in the trunk or back seat of today's medium size cars. This machine was actually ordered from England by a homesick War Bride and shipped to the US after the war. Due to the scarcity of the export size I will surmise that it is one of few built, perhaps even a prototype. Also, the visible news print appeared to be prewar vintage and so was possibly constructed long before being shipped overseas in peace time.

epigramophone wrote:

neilmack wrote:Any chance of an introduction to your then girlfriend?

Seconded, and welcome to the Forum!

I shall be visiting Frank James later this week and will see what he has to say about your machine, so watch this space......

Roger.

Alastair Murray and I visited Frank today and had a great time. Those familiar with "The EMG Story" will know that Alastair produced the beautiful line drawings which appear in the book.

Frank confirms that we are looking at a Xa Export Model, but it is not the machine which once graced a hotel ballroom in Torquay. That one, he recalls, was a Xb Oversize.

As to the soundbox with it's mica diaphragm, Frank would be interested to see a closeup picture of it. If such a picture can be posted here I can copy and forward it to him for comment, provided of course that the owner is happy for me to do this.

Now the bad news. Frank is not and never has been a member of this forum and has no plans to join. He simply does not have the time, as his current projects (none of them gramophone related) will keep him fully occupied for months if not years. This is our loss, because he would have so much to contribute.

Roger.

Thanks Roger for the great bit of information via you from Frank with the final imprimatur that this is an Xa 'Export'. Sad that it is not the teddy bear one, but that leaves open the mystery of its provenance. I will ask my former girlfriend (that you want to befriend ) if she can remember which antique store she got it from. Maybe she will, and maybe there will be a nice 80 year old assistant still there remembering the sale! (Not likely methinks!)

I attach a picture of the soundbox. There are more pictures on my website at http://metastudies.net/pmwiki/pmwiki.ph ... hisMachine if you want them. They can be dragged into a folder on your computer.



I will be fascinated to hear from Frank via you if he has any further insights on this!

And thanks also Orchestrope for the wonderful account of your restoration of the horn of that EMG. It was quite an eye opener on what can be done if one is ingenious and bold enough! Very interesting, and I am most impressed - and thanks for sharing!!

Warm good wishes,

Jim

Well done Orchestrope and thanks for also confirming it's an export IX.
Can we have some more pictures of the whole machine please.
Also can you talk your friend into posting pictures of his oversize.
Great to see these British gramophones in the USA. I'm always surprised how many made it to Canada.

The paper from India looks interesting. It looks very much like paper for an Expert horn. Where did you get it from?.

Many thanks Orchestrope for your excellent description of the history and rebuilding of your Mk IX horn---it now looks wonderful and a great credit to you.

I wonder if you would mind clearing up a small query---I am not sure if all three photos shown earlier in this post (page 1) are of your horn and gramophone ?

Hi Graham,

Pardon if what follows is already sorted, as no doubt it probably is! I am absolutely a new boy as you know!!

A query about your wonderful start on developing a register for serial numbers. I notice that what may be an electric Xa (with white painted horn) was put up for sale at Gorringes on 4 Sep 2013 with a serial number reported to be 341. It is suggestive of an Xa because it has a 28.5 inch horn. However I know that is not necessarily decisive. It also has the later ball race and the brackets and other fittings similar to mine in the cabinet. However the deck under the record platen is the pattern later than mine - looking more like that on the IX and Xb with serial 1404 and 2056 respectively. I guess that would work if it was the later Xa supplied on a later Xb cabinet? But you will know more!

Listing from Gorringes is in their archive at:

http://www.gorringes.co.uk/asp/fullCata ... saletype=P

The deck is shown at:

http://www.gorringes.co.uk/Full/019/102 ... 008_08.jpg

and the player as a whole is shown at

http://www.gorringes.co.uk/Full/019/10291019.jpg

What is it, and should it be in your listing?

All the best,

Jim

Hello Jim,

Many thanks for pointing out this auction item and you are quite right---it should be in the register. The idea of the latter happened after the date of this sale and is the reason for it not being picked up. I appreciate the alert. The sale particulars refer to a goose-neck tonearm but it is a swan-neck seen in the photos. The tonearm rest looks to be wooden which was often a feature of the Xa model.

So, it certainly looks like a Xa to me and I think it is important not to be confused by the motor or turntable etc as customer choice was usually king. Various options were often available from new. Additionally, original motors were often superceded or changed for any number of reasons---particularly with the progressive advent of electricity into private homes throughout the nineteen-thirties.

The telling detail on this particular base unit would appear to be the bronze plaque which perhaps suggests 1932 if I have remembered correctly what Frank James told me. I am in the process of double checking the statement that "bronze plaque means 1932" and will report back as soon as I am able. The only other example I have seen with the bronze plaque is on the deckboard of a Xa owned by Frankia which is #412---I have asked for photos which should arrive soon. It is perhaps interesting to note in passing that the second number issued to the Cobham Hall example is #333 (formerly #199) but both plates are made from ivorine. We may be starting to produce a larger picture but more detail is needed.

Thanks Graham,

You are obviously doing a wonderful job developing your database. It would of course be good if we could publish an updated list of the known machines to which we could assign a unique number to each machine. It would cut a lot of ambiguity and verbiage out when we refer to particular machines. With your knowledge of the field you would of course seem to be the perfectly placed guy to do that. (Rankin numbers? )

In order to follow all the discussion I have built my own database (which will be a pale shadow of yours.) It is in a folder structure using software called Devonthink which is very good at storing multiple sorts of documents. So far I have only two possible Model Xa Export machines - my own and the one in the Summer's edition of For The Record -John Smith obituary which Chunny put up the other day - which is either an Xa or Xb - but I can't work out which (and neither can Chunny). The other one seems to have been an oversize.

So - do you know of any other Xa Export machines which still survive?

And it would be interesting to know how many machines Xa, Xb, IX do you now have in your database? It is obviously building up very well.

Warm good wishes,

Jim