The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

fran604g wrote: Frow states on page 176: "After January 1928, a lateral-cut sound-box was sent out as Edisonic equipment."

Can anyone cite or hopefully post any original documentation to confirm this? I'd be grateful!

George P.

I wonder why the Edison Co. wouldn't provide gun-metal finish matching components for their final acoustic models? Nickel plated just seems out of place to me.

I sincerely hope that someone will chime in and enlighten me. As many of you probably know, I'm more than a little obsessed with Diamond Disc Phonographs.

Best,
Fran

Hi all,
No one talked about the electric pickup, the last post on page one of this post by Fran, as being apparently for both hill a dale (stylus 41) and vertical (stylus 40). This would allow an older acoustic Edison to play both 78 rpm records and Diamond Discs electrically through a radio. It also has the magnet oriented 90 degrees perpendicular to that of the magnets in the Edison radio-phonograph that I have seen pictured on page 181 of Frow!
Allen

That's an interesting observation, Allen!

I hadn't thought of the possibility of TAE, Inc. considering a practicable retrofit for electrical amplification for their earlier Phonographs; but why not?

However, I doubt it was acted upon, at least from my perspective.

By mid 1929 (and presumably much earlier), the company was quite busy assessing operations for closure that weren't fruitful, and finally pursuing the realm of electronics in the form of Radio-Phonographs, as opposed to increased efforts to expand the realm of their Disc-only Phonographs (obviously the P-1 and P-2 portables were exceptions to my hypothesis).

An interesting correspondence, that supports my theory (dated October 12, 1929) is from Arthur L. Walsh (then Phonograph Division VP) to Charles Edison (President of TAE, Inc.); in which he includes a breakdown of figures showing that the company had sustained a net loss of $1.33 million over the preceding 5 years of record production.*

Certainly this provides us with a real glimpse into the severity of the terminal illness being experienced by the Phonograph Division.

That being said, in Frow (...Disc Phonographs and...) on pg. 87, he speaks of an electrical pick-up "head" invented by Charles Edison for Radio-Phonographs in 1928; presumably, and in my opinion only, this probably would have prompted at least the idea of marketing something similar to accomodate the playing of both lateral and Hill & Dale (especially those electrically recorded?) formats electrically on their older models. To me that seems entirely plausible, and a semi-practical consideration.

It seems, however, that this device may have only been used in the construction of their Radio-Phonographs.

Now, going back to the correspondence I noted above, Walsh stated in his notes that one possible "advantage" to remaining in the record business was: 5. Possibility of Record Business being reborn, if Combinations [emphasis mine] become increasingly popular.

Walsh also makes a notation in the "Disadvantages" category of staying in the record business as: 3. Unfavorable situation regarding portables, which we do not manufacture, but buy and sell at a book loss merely to help sales of records.

It doesn't seem likely to me that the company would be interested in the prospect of the same exact situation in regard to marketing anything else that might fail to generate much needed income.

We all know how this eventually played out: with the elimination of the entertainment Phonograph Division forever.

Not that I've "seen it all"; that's not at all remotely what I'm suggesting!

I'm just trying to keep the conversation alive, so that new information might surface, and I (we) can learn.

Best,
Fran

* Courtesy The Edison National Historic Site (contained within the collection of: "DISCONTINUING RECORD PRODUCTION" (1929) - DOCUMENTS FROM THE FINAL DAYS OF EDISON'S PHONOGRAPH DIVISION) found here: http://www.mainspringpress.com/edison_d ... nuing.html

A Ford 1 wrote:Hi all,
No one talked about the electric pickup, the last post on page one of this post by Fran, as being apparently for both hill a dale (stylus 41) and vertical (stylus 40). This would allow an older acoustic Edison to play both 78 rpm records and Diamond Discs electrically through a radio. It also has the magnet oriented 90 degrees perpendicular to that of the magnets in the Edison radio-phonograph that I have seen pictured on page 181 of Frow!
Allen

In speaking directly to your post, Frow also states on pg. 87, that the Pacent Company had provided quotes on two types of magnetic pick-ups. I wonder if one of them is the version included with Eaton's Patent I provided in the previous post?

Best,
Fran

Hi,
I agree this was probably not made but they were looking at the possibility. It is possible a proof of concept experimental device was produced. the experimental device of course would probably not have looked exactly like the drawing depicts.
All the best to you Fran and all others that are interested,
Allen

I believe this reproducer was also fitted on the first Edison Portable before the release of the P-1 and P-2. I have attached a copy of the ad. I am thinking this was probably a better reproducer than the "art deco" ones that we find on the P-1 and P-2. These may have also been sold with or for adapters, as 78's were dominant and Edison DD's were on their way out.

Uncle Vanya wrote:Here are some more detailed photographs of the brass Edison sound box and one of the adapters used with it:

Did this just sell on E-bay? I was in the thick of it to the end, but wasn't prepared to bid much over $300--having recently spent a good deal on my Schubert's renovation. Bad timing. This is an amazing reproducer and we won't see another like it for a long while.

Funny feeling to be bidding like that and know that you're likely up against some of your buddies in this forum.

Ralph

pughphonos wrote:

Uncle Vanya wrote:Here are some more detailed photographs of the brass Edison sound box and one of the adapters used with it:

Did this just sell on E-bay? I was in the thick of it to the end, but wasn't prepared to bid much over $300--having recently spent a good deal on my Schubert's renovation. Bad timing. This is an amazing reproducer and we won't see another like it for a long while.

Funny feeling to be bidding like that and know that you're likely up against some of your buddies in this forum.

Ralph

Yes. I offerred this for sale. This was the unit that I restored and sold to Charles Gregory many years ago. I received it back as a trade-in towards a machine. I offerred it because I thought that it would be better in the hands of an Edison specialist. The winning bidder got a rather good bargain, I think, and I'm glad of it!

Ralph, don't worry about bidding against friends. At an an auction it is every man for himself, generally. Friends don't generally begrudge a buddy's bid, as long as they are honestly interested for their collection.

Uncle Vanya wrote: Ralph, don't worry about bidding against friends. At an an auction it is every man for himself, generally. Friends don't generally begrudge a buddy's bid, as long as they are honestly interested for their collection.

I didn't mean to sound like I begrudged anyone; it would have been more appropriate had I said something like "Hey, I'm pretty sure the gang's all here!" I'm sure it's now in good hands. If this had come down the pike at a different time I would have gone above $400 easily.

Anyway, Uncle Vanya, since you're on here, I've got a question. You said that this was essentially the Vita-tonal reproducer. How easily is it to get one of those, with an Edison adapter, regardless of face plate ID? You have any, or know of any who does and is willing to sell?