Victor VTLA (XX) Victrola the Twentieth

[Curt A]

Looks great, Raphael... I expect that mine will look as good when you finish it... post pictures when its done.
My XX that went to Raphael:
http://open1234.wixsite.com/carolinaphonosociety

[tictalk]

That is truly a gorgeous machine Raphael, of the two I had one was gilded the other was not , I choose the gilded , the finish is a little tired

[gramophone78]

I have wondered why some of these XX's that have been restored with gold, have had the extra gold accenting added to the carved area off to the side of the doors..??. I have only seen the gold applied to the center portion of the doors. The only other time I have seen this 'added' gold is in catalog illustrations and I believe may simply be artistic license.

Has anyone seen an original with this added gold applied to these areas ?.

Here is mine showing no such application.

[JerryVan]

My goodness, these aren't rare at all.

[EarlH]

Here's a postcard from a Victor dealer down in Des Moines that I ran across a long time ago. In case you might wonder how these things were marketed. Looks like they had lots of stuff in that store. It's too bad the post-card wasn't a higher quality photo.

[Raphael]

[quote="gramophone78"]I have wondered why some of these XX's that have been restored with gold, have had the extra gold accenting added to the carved area off to the side of the doors..??. I have only seen the gold applied to the center portion of the doors. The only other time I have seen this 'added' gold is in catalog illustrations and I believe may simply be artistic license.

Has anyone seen an original with this added gold applied to these areas ?.


My machine appeared to be all-original and had the gold applied to these areas. My restoration shop merely went over the original gilding.

Raphael

[gramophone78]

Here's a postcard from a Victor dealer down in Des Moines that I ran across a long time ago. In case you might wonder how these things were marketed. Looks like they had lots of stuff in that store. It's too bad the post-card wasn't a higher quality photo.

Earl, what a great postcard. If you enlarge, you can just see the gilding is only applied to the center area. You can also see the reflection of the carving not gilded on the door sides.

Is there a member that can show a unrestored XX with the extra gilding...??.I would love to see it.

Here is the rendition I mention in a previous post from a catalog.Another reason I believe there is some artistic licence with this drawing, is the fact the castors are also portrayed as gilded....the wheel portion is not. They are bare steel.

Thanks again for sharing the postcard.

[gramophone78]

My machine appeared to be all-original and had the gold applied to these areas. My restoration shop merely went over the original gilding.
Raphael

I hope you documented (with photos) this feature of extra gilding before you had it restored..?. If you did, I would love to see them.

[Raphael]

I would like to mention something that occurred in the last few days. A customer of mine, who in the past has bought high-end, fully restored machines from me, contacted me about the VV-XX that I bought from Curt and is en-route to me by a specialty antique delivery service.

This customer said that he would like to buy Curt's XX in order to "save it from ruination" by my restorers. He also said that "well known major collectors" were horrified by the restoration that I did on the first XX.

Now really, is taking a machine that is missing moldings, trim, has chips and gouges, and a worn, dried-out and discolored finish "ruined" by repairing the defects, replacing the wrong parts with correct ones, and carefully (and expensively) saving the original finish and bringing it back to life? And having professionally applied real gold-leafing to the trim pieces, as original?

I fully understand that some collectors want 100% original machines and respect that. Neither I or my wife want that that genre in our house, and I have diligently built a customer base accordingly. I have been to many collectors homes over the years, and some display their collections beautifully, others are, well, like you see on American Pickers. There are all types, and one size does not fit all. But do I ever insult a collector by telling him that his house and collection are a pig sty? Of course not. Nor would I tell him that he "ruined" a machine (not even Brady Jeffcoat, RIP).

Bottom line, after almost selling the XX to my customer, I felt so insulted by his "ruination" statement that I backed off the deal. I could have made a nice profit and drop-shipped the XX to him, but there is more to life, business and collecting than that. And the first XX is in my living room, a place of honor that my wife only allows one phonograph and one music box (a Nicole Frères Grand Format Overture) and that's it.

Raphael

[Hailey]

I would like to mention something that occurred in the last few days. A customer of mine, who in the past has bought high-end, fully restored machines from me, contacted me about the VV-XX that I bought from Curt and is en-route to me by a specialty antique delivery service.

This customer said that he would like to buy Curt's XX in order to "save it from ruination" by my restorers. He also said that "well known major collectors" were horrified by the restoration that I did on the first XX.

Now really, is taking a machine that is missing moldings, trim, has chips and gouges, and a worn, dried-out and discolored finish "ruined" by repairing the defects, replacing the wrong parts with correct ones, and carefully (and expensively) saving the original finish and bringing it back to life? And having professionally applied real gold-leafing to the trim pieces, as original?

I fully understand that some collectors want 100% original machines and respect that. Neither I or my wife want that that genre in our house, and I have diligently built a customer base accordingly. I have been to many collectors homes over the years, and some display their collections beautifully, others are, well, like you see on American Pickers. There are all types, and one size does not fit all. But do I ever insult a collector by telling him that his house and collection are a pig sty? Of course not. Nor would I tell him that he "ruined" a machine (not even Brady Jeffcoat, RIP).

Bottom line, after almost selling the XX to my customer, I felt so insulted by his "ruination" statement that I backed off the deal. I could have made a nice profit and drop-shipped the XX to him, but there is more to life, business and collecting than that. And the first XX is in my living room, a place of honor that my wife only allows one phonograph and one music box (a Nicole Frères Grand Format Overture) and that's it.

Raphael

Which is exactly why I find it VERY painful to sell rare machines to collectors. VERY good points stated by Raphael.