The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

Very interesting posts, Orchorsol and ALVES, with great photos of the EMG Mark VIII. Positioning of gramophones is vitally important, as I discovered when finding the best place for my Senior. When taking photographs for an article, the horn was facing along the room, opposite a bay window. It was immediately apparent when playing a record that the bass response was severely truncated, with wave reflection from the window causing a decidedly thin reproduction. The gramophone is now placed in an alcove to the right of a fireplace, with the horn facing virtually the whole room area. The sound is full-bodied with deep bass, forward middle range, and crisp treble response. Large horns need a reasonable size room area. The critical part is the horn mouth, which must have no restrictions or reflections to interfere with the wave energy produced, with the air in the room being an extension of the horn output. Sound waves from a soundbox through an acoustic system cause the air molecules to ebb and flow (like electricity through a cable) and, each time the air molecules are pushed forward, more energy is created and the volume increases as the sound conduit expands. That's why the flare of a horn has to be calculated exactly -- because, if it doesn't allow the air molecules to flow, they go back into the horn and create a muffled sound.
I also have a large Salon Decca oak cabinet gramophone, which sounds terrible in the alcove because the air waves are directed towards the side of a settee which absorbs the sound. With space in front it gives a superb sound.

I agree, and yet my four (Junior, Mk VIII and two rather different Mk Xbs) are all in more or less the only positions they could possibly fit within my smallish living room - together with a large hi-fi system - but they still sound fantastic, as emgcr can attest! No room in the house for a television, but I haven't missed that once in the last 12 years or more.

I do like to listen on-axis to the horns. For really captivating records I will sometimes remain standing for that reason - I can feel as if suspended in mid-air and unable to sit down! Agreed, I've noticed that the deflected sound can be very pleasant, but I never find it truly satisfying - for me, it really misses something compared with the full holographic immersion/illusion when one is in line with the horn's "beam".

Positioning a machine in this house is subject to aesthetics and space problems .Saying that the VIII does sound good in the hall facing the wall .The sound is fuller . The only place in the house I have managed holographic sound is in the living room. The room is long and narrow which is not ideal and also has a very low ceiling.
The Xa is positioned in the back of the room in left corner and with the horn facing diagonally not directly up the room but toward the wall on RH side I can get the holographic sound by standing in a certain position .
The junior stands in the middle half way up the room .

How wonderful to see so many Experts, thanks for starting the thread. Just so mine doesn't feel left out....

My pleasure, Loudbass. I'm pleased that it's generated such a response. As you state, nice to see so many fine gramophones still being used. Keep the images and descriptions coming, please.
Incidentally, I'd like to know someone's thoughts on the Quincke tube and if any difference in sound has been noticed with varying positions. I'll offer my conclusions later.

Yes, I would also be interested in people's opinions on this. I haven't really experimented myself with the tube length, but note that EMG (after the split) abandoned the Quincke in the Mark X. I would guess the difference is minimal but would be keen to hear of optimum positions.

My general experience is that, for best effects, placing the horn in the corner of a room playing outwards at about 45 degrees utilises the adjacent walls as a horn extension to excellent effect as long as the ceilings are not too high. Carpets, of course, will attenuate/dampen the sound waves to a certain extent---sometimes a benefit. The signal is very directional.

As far as the Quincke tube is concerned, I have never been able to detect the slightest variation of sound at any setting and have concluded that the complication was a marketing gimmick---but I may be entirely wrong ! Also, this may say more about my hearing than the performance of the gramophone ! My receivers have been on the planet for more than three score years and ten..........Certainly the later uninterrupted swan-neck tonearm works beautifully without such a contraption.

emgcr wrote:As far as the Quincke tube is concerned, I have never been able to detect the slightest variation of sound at any setting and have concluded that the complication was a marketing gimmick---but I may be entirely wrong ! Also, this may say more about my hearing than the performance of the gramophone ! My receivers have been on the planet for more than three score years and ten..........Certainly the later uninterrupted swan-neck tonearm works beautifully without such a contraption.

Contraption indeed! I can't say I've fiddled much with it, but that's my impression too. I'd be very interested to hear any other view though.

Incidentally, I'm fairly sure this is a partial misnomer - it certainly isn't a Quincke tube along the lines of the scientific apparatus (for measuring acoustic interference and wavelengths), but possibly a Quincke filter (a kind of bandpass filter) but even that is possibly implausible in terms of its configuration...

Thank you for your responses, Loudbass and emger. I too reached my "three score and ten" last year but still have sensitive enough hearing to evaluate the Quincke tube. Varying the length does indeed (to my ears) have some effect, but it is minimal. At its fullest extent the bass response is slightly less and the treble response artificially brighter. At its shortest length the reproduction is slightly muffled. The best position for the Quincke tube on my Senior is about half way, giving a clear and natural response throughout the whole range, with better definition. I must stress that the differences are minimal, but detectable all the same.

My Senior's horn also faces into the room at 45 degrees, giving a wider distribution of sound than if it were parallel to a wall. All horns and sound sources are to a certain extent directional, but these large horns spread the sound wider than most mass-produced external-horn gramophones.

This is he view of the long low living room facing the back .
To the right of the EXPERTis a built in bookcase I made as a room divider which helps split the room into two areas as does the placing of furniture .

Not easy to accommodate large gramophones aesthetically or acustically