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marcapra wrote:I think that even if this were a salesman's sample, it would have to be a home-made unit made by the salesman or dealer. Or it could have even been made by an owner who wanted to make it easier to move from apartment to apartment?

Certainly. Your scenarios make much more sense than believing this would have ever been anything from the factory.

I don't believe that it was, for even a nanosecond.

I'm looking for anyone that would have any proof that such a modification could have ever actually been a "salesman's sample".

Best,
Fran

Hi folks,

At this point in the discussion, I'm sure there are some who think me daft. In my defense, I can be sometimes. However, I do have precedence for my sense of wonder. Like most serious collector/historians, I'm always searching for answers, and rely on those with much more experience in the field to help me find answers to my questions.

When I was visiting the Thomas Edison National Historical Park last April, I discovered a hidden gem on the 3rd floor of the Laboratory building that still has me intrigued, and more than a little curious as to what its purpose was in constructing.

It's obviously a "Chippendale" patterned Disc Phonograph, but it's the size of a tabletop version. It's a fairly rough interpretation, but still exhibits important design elements. See the images below.

Months after my discovery, I found a photograph of this particular anomaly at the Library of Congress (https://www.loc.gov/resource/hhh.nj1222 ... lery&c=160 -- #86 of 93), showing it alongside many other artifacts that appear to have been gathered, and cataloged for inventory purposes at some point. Why was this "mock-up" (I hate to use the word "prototype") constructed? What, exactly was it's purpose? Was it an idea for a much needed newer version of tabletop Disc Phonograph, to replace the antiquated models 60 and 80? Or, was it just slapped together as a demonstration model for the design team?

At any rate, a tabletop version of the "Chippendale" -- in retrospect, and with my own 21st century thinking -- would have made an awful lot of sense, IMHO. My point is, don't dismiss some anomalies too easily.

Why was the Chippendale that's the topic of this discussion cut apart? Why did the other OAK one I've seen have the same done?

The obvious answer is: because cutting them apart would make it much easier to move from place to place. However, cutting one apart so that it still looks good; well, that's a little more challenging than just taking a circular saw to one.

Likely I'll never know "why", but I have to ask.

Best,
Fran

MY IMAGE AT THE LABORATORY - 3RD FLOOR, LAST VISIBLE SHELF UNIT (TOP) BEFORE THE MUSIC ROOM LOC IMAGE (CIRCLE, MINE)

And there's the paradox: trying to keep an open mind while applying intelligence and experience to an unusual machine. My next article (to appear in the March 2017 issue of The Antique Phonograph) will be focused on this - as well as two spectacular machines that defy explanation.

Again - for me the problem with this machine is that I've seen too many Victrolas, Edison Disc Phonographs, and Amberolas (even a 1A/B!) sawn in half. These weren't "salesman samples" but on the other hand, their existence doesn't preclude the possibility that such a configuration exists somewhere. I'm skeptical, but open to the possibility, however remote.

George P.

You're right, George, it's always a paradox.

Finding the right balance between what we want to believe, and what is fact, should always be a challenge.

If it were simple, it wouldn't be any fun.

Best,
Fran

phonogfp wrote:Jiminy Christmas - I didn't even notice the record on the turntable!

What the heck is that record? (Aside from possibly being the catalyst for the "salesman sample" story...?)

George P.

I was going to wait, rather than be a Scrooge and ruin our hopes for some new never before seen records, but here I go...

Well the owner did get back to me, and it seems that she has been sold a story. Of course it's still possible that the machine is legit, but due to the fact the records are bogus, or so it acutely seems, I go with "Fake".

It seems the records are

1)52149 the Happiness Boys. She described a song about a rumble seat and the luckiest fellow (actual title "Go Home and Tell Your Mother that I Love you), but the record has no etched # that she can see.
2)80731 She gave me the #4906C6 and the song Oh Solo Mio, she didn't recognize the other song. I believe this to be 80731
3)51395 She found this # 51395 and 8772A16 which is Elegie-Melodie and Lyriske Stykker. She described them as piano pieces from silent films.

I have added the photos that she sent to me. It seems quite obvious to me that she was the one that was duped and not the one doing it.She was very forthright with the info and was hoping I could help shed some light on them. I think the matrix # on the record below is 10115 which seems to be a # that corresponds to "Various Artists" dubbed excerpts of existing recordings which I believe was a 12" record. Maybe someone can lend some more light on this than I. Hers is a 10" I'm pretty sure.

I hope you all had a Wonderful Christmas and Happy Hanukkah.


*I noticed the first picture has the same 10115# as the last 2. Those last 2 have 51395 penciled in on both sides.

DGPros wrote:

phonogfp wrote:Jiminy Christmas - I didn't even notice the record on the turntable!

What the heck is that record? (Aside from possibly being the catalyst for the "salesman sample" story...?)

George P.

I was going to wait, rather than be a Scrooge and ruin our hopes for some new never before seen records, but here I go...

Well the owner did get back to me, and it seems that she has been sold a story. Of course it's still possible that the machine is legit, but due to the fact the records are bogus, or so it acutely seems, I go with "Fake".

It seems the records are

1)52149 the Happiness Boys. She described a song about a rumble seat and the luckiest fellow (actual title "Go Home and Tell Your Mother that I Love you), but the record has no etched # that she can see.
2)80731 She gave me the #4906C6 and the song Oh Solo Mio, she didn't recognize the other song. I believe this to be 80731
3)51395 She found this # 51395 and 8772A16 which is Elegie-Melodie and Lyriske Stykker. She described them as piano pieces from silent films.

I have added the photos that she sent to me. It seems quite obvious to me that she was the one that was duped and not the one doing it.She was very forthright with the info and was hoping I could help shed some light on them. I think the matrix # on the record below is 10115 which seems to be a # that corresponds to "Various Artists" dubbed excerpts of existing recordings which I believe was a 12" record. Maybe someone can lend some more light on this than I. Hers is a 10" I'm pretty sure.

I hope you all had a Wonderful Christmas and Happy Hanukkah.


*I noticed the first picture has the same 10115# as the last 2. Those last 2 have 51395 penciled in on both sides.

Thank you, Gary for seeing this topic through to the end. Your pursuit for the facts in this matter, is very appreciated!

I've edited the title of my post to more accurately reflect the outcome of this long thread.

IMHO, this post should remain in perpetuity to dispel any doubt that an Edison Chippendale "Salesman Sample" has ever existed, and maybe to assist those in the future from becoming victims of fraud.

This is a sad testament to the extremes some will go to, to rip off an unsuspecting buyer.

I hope whomever fabricated this Chippendale, and the story, is no longer among us. God knows what else might be out there...

I extend my thanks to all who have participated in this discussion,

Fran

Excellent detective work !