The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

I sure am impressed as well. I do hope there will be some available in the near future. Records we would have no fear to play on original equipment are always a good thing!

Dan

Certainly an accomplishment, but I remain concerned about copyright implications. Since the ownership of the Edison masters is unclear, it's not likely there will be any issues with duplication. However, for underlying compositions first published after 1923, it's very likely that the compositions themselves are still covered by copyright and should be licensed before publication. The Harry Fox agency has an online process to do this quickly and inexpensively. Do your research before proceeding too much further and know that copyright rules vary from country to country.

52089 wrote:Certainly an accomplishment, but I remain concerned about copyright implications. Since the ownership of the Edison masters is unclear, it's not likely there will be any issues with duplication. However, for underlying compositions first published after 1923, it's very likely that the compositions themselves are still covered by copyright and should be licensed before publication. The Harry Fox agency has an online process to do this quickly and inexpensively. Do your research before proceeding too much further and know that copyright rules vary from country to country.

I respect your opinion on this, but even attempting to enter that netherworld of unknown gray areas may bog down or destroy this project. Can you imagine bringing lawyers into this and trying to have them argue for or against it? If you can imagine it, then imagine that it might take decades and who knows how much money to accomplish the duplication of a few 78s or DDs... might as well give up now. As far as licensing goes - how would you establish any value on a few copies and who would you pay this possibly unreasonable fee to, sincee the original record companies are most likely out of business. Obviously, if there was significant money to be made, Don wouldn't be doing this on his own, since SONY would shut him down.

If you own the record you can duplicate it, in my opinion, since those records were sold 100 years ago without our current copyright laws and any previous claims are certainly expired. He is duplicating the object, the content just happens to be there, which is true for the newly made cylinders. If you made an entirely new pressing and used a digital copy of a song to reproduce, that might be a different story... just my opinion.

I doubt anyone will notice a handful of records being sold here or on eBay. The opportunistic copyright nazis are more likely watching YouTube and other social media. This is would be comparable to the IRS shutting down a lemonade stand. Unless some busybody squealed, how would they know?

I'd like to get a repro of one of those blues issues on Edison from 1924.edisonplayer

VintageTechnologies wrote:I doubt anyone will notice a handful of records being sold here or on eBay. The opportunistic copyright nazis are more likely watching YouTube and other social media. This is would be comparable to the IRS shutting down a lemonade stand. Unless some busybody squealed, how would they know?

I believe that the copyright issue is mostly a scam and who even cares about music from the early 1900s other than a very few people, ... They shut down Napster for peer to peer sharing of music, but it is still in business as a streaming listening/download service for $4.99 or $9.99 a month. The biggest violator of copyright infringement (if that is a legitimate issue) is YouTube/Google. Why does that exist with millions of songs and videos to be freely downloaded, if there is a real issue...?

You can download almost anything on YouTube with a free online website...

http://en.savefrom.net/1-how-to-download-youtube-video/

I bet these record will last quite a while as he has already made some 78s from resin which can be played with steel needles, so a diamond disc should be no problem for wear.

That's indeed a very good start. Peter Liebert had a double-sided DD copy several years ago but unfortunately it never went beyond a couple copies.

When I was involved in the production of the advertising DD for Charley Hummel, getting the center hole right was indeed a very tricky task, especially, because the original record was already pretty much off-center.

Unfortunately, the further pursued DD trials turned out unsatisfactory, at least for a less time-consuming production of certain quantities as silicone can turned bad very quickly.

You video is quite promising on these efforts!

Norman and Shawn would be great for you to work with, on so many levels, and could really get this off the ground running.

I have always thought that Edison players were preferable because of not having to replace the needle for each play.
Maybe lateral discs could be played using a non self destruct stylus on the Berliner based systems.

Does that make sense?

billybob62 wrote:Norman and Shawn would be great for you to work with, on so many levels, and could really get this off the ground running.

I have always thought that Edison players were preferable because of not having to replace the needle for each play.
Maybe lateral discs could be played using a non self destruct stylus on the Berliner based systems.

Does that make sense?

Yes there are long playing needles for acoustic phonographs however they are not preferable as the tracking weight of normal acoustic machines will cause much quicker wear to records with such needles. The idea of one use needles is to wear the needles quicker which in turn will slow the wear on the record.

When I experimented with a 1930s pack of unused long play needles which were "guaranteed for 30 records" I used them on my electric Columbia which has a lighter weight that acoustic machines however still uses steel needles. And the long play needles even with less weight than designed caused shellac to build up around the end of my needle from my record.

This was acceptable the 1930s as you could go out to the shop and get another copy however you can no longer buy new records so stick to single use needles your records will last being played hundreds of times on a good machine.