The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

phonogfp wrote:

fran604g wrote:
George, Phonogal is correct I think, the William and Mary on pg.221 of your Compendium appears to have the late "gun-metal" finish.

Best,
Fran

Isn't that what I wrote? Of course I got the page number wrong, so who knows what else was screwed up...?

George P.

Hey, I'm just agreeing with you, Mr. Paul. Where would we be without our friends having our backs?

Fran, all due respect, you are talking about the "consistency" of earlier and later "antique finished" parts. I agree that there may be some consistency, but again it would only be consistent if the same employee burnished all of the parts, since they were hand done, not machined. I am sure that there was more than one employee in charge of burnishing and that the only way to compare for consistency would be a side by side comparison of ALL burnished parts that came out of the factory on various dates, and on ALL machines with that finish attributed to specific employees.

To use a limited number of examples on a limited number of existing models does not provide an accurate comparison to base any assumptions. As an example, maybe Phonogals machine has the most common form of decoration on it and the majority of those machines were scrapped, while the machines with the more attractive decorations were preserved... who knows? My point is that I don't believe that anything can be determined by the pattern, attractiveness or consistency of a burnished part... This is not an argument, but a fact that all hand done parts are individually unique...

If you check the pictures on the internet of machines with oxidized finishes you will find a vast difference in the patterns and amount of dark areas verses burnished areas. I don't think my machines hardware was a gun metal finish oops and it sure isn't gold. Frow doesn't mention any other finish for this model other than gold but I'm sure it could be ordered if the customer wanted it. So does anyone have a W250 with an earlier serial number than mine? If so, what finish does it have? It would be interesting to know when the gun metal finish replaced the gold finish.

I found a picture of this reproducer that recently sold on Ebay. Would you consider this to be an oxidized reproducer? The pattern seems to be more like what Fran posted for what an oxidized finish would look like but the bottom of this early style standard has a different pattern. This was listed as antique bronze. I'm confused

phonogal wrote:I found a picture of this reproducer that recently sold on Ebay. Would you consider this to be an oxidized reproducer? The pattern seems to be more like what Fran posted for what an oxidized finish would look like but the bottom of this early style standard has a different pattern.

Edison-Antique-Bronze-diamond-Disc-Phonograph-Reproducer-Assembly1.jpg

Edison-Antique-Bronze-diamond-Disc-Phonograph-Reproducer-Assembly1.jpg

Yes, definitely...

Curt A wrote:

phonogal wrote:I found a picture of this reproducer that recently sold on Ebay. Would you consider this to be an oxidized reproducer? The pattern seems to be more like what Fran posted for what an oxidized finish would look like but the bottom of this early style standard has a different pattern.

Edison-Antique-Bronze-diamond-Disc-Phonograph-Reproducer-Assembly1.jpg

Edison-Antique-Bronze-diamond-Disc-Phonograph-Reproducer-Assembly1.jpg

Yes, definitely...

If you will look at the picture of the bottom of that reproducer, that is what the pattern looks like on my machine. Same finish.

Edison called that "Oxidized Bronze" in its catalogs, but we collectors like to use our own nomenclature.

George P.

phonogfp wrote:Edison called that "Oxidized Bronze" in its catalogs, but we collectors like to use our own nomenclature.

George P.

I'm still confused about the finish on my machine, It looks like an oxidized finish to me. It doesn't look like the gun metal finish and it certainly is not gold. Frow only lists those options on the W250 and W19. I know the pattern on mine is more spots than lines but there is a picture of an Idelia on pg 182 of your book with spots.

As Curt and George both said, yes -- the one you just posted is "Oxidized Bronze" that was used on the A 150.

Very interesting.

Best,
Fran

phonogal wrote: It would be interesting to know when the gun metal finish replaced the gold finish.

I'm not certain that the "Antique" finish -- as it was called in Edison propaganda (not gun-metal, that seems to be a modern term) -- ever completely replaced the gold plated finish with the Official Laboratory Models.

I don't believe it did specifically in regard to the Chippendale Upright. I've documented some very late C 19s with both Antique, and Gold finishes.

Toward the end of production it seems the co. was using whatever they could find in inventory to fill orders.

It seems that you, Sean, and Bruce all have a variant finish I hadn't previously noted.

That surprises me a little, but then I haven't examined the W&M as intently as I have the Chippendale.

Would you say the burnished places on your horn is copper-like, and an exact match to the places exposed on your reproducer, or a different underlying color?

Best,
Fran