The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

I was looking through the posted pictures and now I'm not 100% sure I have a "type G". I think it's the right model, but is there a way to be sure? I.e., is there a listing of all the Bell-Tainter/Columbia players with pictures/descriptions?

I would send it to Wyatt Markus (aka "Micamonster" on this forum) - this reproducer is extremely valuable and fragile (the body is made of gutta-percha, a sort of hard rubber made from the sap of a certain tree), and he is very meticulous and accustomed to working on the high-end stuff like this.

Insure it for $1000. Not kidding.

Keep in mind that the value of this particular machine is not in its usability, but instead, its rarity. It's extremely early, and not many were made, and not many have survived. So even at its best, the experience is going to be more as a curiosity than as pleasurable listening.

There is a reference book, now out of print, that provides the info you need to identify your machine. Post more photos, closer up, of the mechanism and of the motor, and those of us with a copy will try to help. Are there no markings cast in to the machine or attached identifying plates with a serial number?

Several of these have the same upper part ("topworks") but variations in the type/configuration of their motors.

TKoP wrote:I was looking through the posted pictures and now I'm not 100% sure I have a "type G". I think it's the right model, but is there a way to be sure? I.e., is there a listing of all the Bell-Tainter/Columbia players with pictures/descriptions?

It's a Type G, also called the "Baby Grand."

Virtually all the Bell/Tainter and Columbia machines are illustrated and described in a book, The Talking Machine Compendium, by Fabrizio & Paul. The Type G is included there (see scan of page 46 below). It's not a Bell/Tainter machine, but its upper works are unique to that model so you may rest assured that it's a Type G.

George P.

Thanks George! I’ll admit to laziness in not hauling out my books, and I apologize.

Where is the G relative to the N? When do they stop being Bell-Tainter and start being something else? Does that correspond to the end of “using up” the treadle style topworkseses?

I wish there was a model timeline in the Columbia compendium.

Thanks for the positive ID!
And thanks for the book info -- i see something to add to my Christmas list.

PeterF wrote: Where is the G relative to the N? When do they stop being Bell-Tainter and start being something else? Does that correspond to the end of “using up” the treadle style topworkseses?

I wish there was a model timeline in the Columbia compendium.

The G came first, in late 1894 or early 1895. The N appeared in September 1895. Neither of them used a Bell/Tainter top works.

The last of the Bell/Tainter tops were used for the Type K (spring-driven) and electric variants such as the I (Incandescent) , C (Combination), and R (Repeating).

George P.

Got it! Thanks!

What year do we think those topworks were done? Did the Bell-Tainter stuff get marketed in parallel with G or even N, or did they precede them entirely?

Is it therefore correct to consider the G as the first Columbia Graphophone?

PeterF wrote: What year do we think those topworks were done? Did the Bell-Tainter stuff get marketed in parallel with G or even N, or did they precede them entirely?

Is it therefore correct to consider the G as the first Columbia Graphophone?

The last of the Bell/Tainter machines (the K is the most "common") were probably marketed until early 1897. These were replaced by the Type C Graphophone. That means during 1895 and 1896, the Bell/Tainter machines were available alongside the G and (later) the N. Keep in mind the Bell/Tainter machines were being marketed at the time primarily as business appliances, while the G and N were for entertainment.

The term "Columbia Graphophone" can be confusing, because until 1895, the Columbia Phonograph Company and the American Graphophone Company were (despite a close working relationship) separate entities. Certain Graphophones of the pre-1896 period have been found lacking decals, and it's surmised that these were sold by American Graphophone. Once the two companies merged their management, American Graphophone functioned solely as a manufacturing company and Columbia handled all sales.

This means that a Type G lacking a decal might have been marketed by American Graphophone, and therefore not really a "Columbia." This is about as esoteric nit-picking as it gets!

George P.

Which would you say is rarest: K, I, C, or R? I'll guess R.